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Posted: 6/18/2015 8:24:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: America]
Am curious what we agree to on if back up iron sights or BUIS are a necessary part of rifles that you build. Lets pretend a new shooter has a limited budget of say 1500 dollars and wanted to put together a 3-15 power scoped rifle and get it out shooting. Would you suggest they spend between 80 and 200 dollars on a set of BUIS or not. The rifle would be used for coyote hunting plinking and could be picked up to defend the house if needed. The owner has a handgun and is looking to put together this rifle.
So BUIS or not and the fun part is explaining why you feel this way. |
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Posted: 6/18/2015 8:29:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Southrnshooter]
[#1]
Small amount of money spent to guarantee your aim if the optic goes down on a possible home defense gun. The only rifle I don't have BUIS on is my target (only) rifle.
Edit....and my 50BMG. |
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Posted: 6/18/2015 8:39:20 PM EDT
[#2]
for 1500 you could build/buy a quality rifle with an aimpoint so I would say no not a absolute requirement but still not a bad idea.
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Posted: 6/18/2015 8:42:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slappomatt:
for 1500 you could build/buy a quality rifle with an aimpoint so I would say no not a absolute requirement but still not a bad idea. The OP states that the shooter has a 3-15 powered optic on the rifle or desires one. The primary concern is hunting coyotes in the midband 200-350 range. |
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Posted: 6/18/2015 9:22:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Muad]
[#4]
On my hunting rig that has a quality variable power optic, I see no need for BUIS.
On a "battle/SHTF" rifle, I would want BUIS. ETA: I voted No, as this person would be better served spending some of his limited budget on better glass than BUIS. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2015 11:15:09 PM EDT
[#5]
If a high quality, rugged optic is being used and the shooter is not planning to invade an enemy country, I vote to buy a spare battery and spend the difference on ammo. If a cheap optic is used, buis will have a chance of becoming needed. I have an Aimpoint Micro on my go-to. With a 50,000 hour battery and a reputation of taking more abuse than the rifle can hold up against, I don't see the need to add the weight and slight clutter to it.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2015 11:19:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Better to have and not need than need but not have.
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Posted: 6/18/2015 11:36:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shadowblade232:
Better to have and not need than need but not have. This is a common response I have heard. Do you not think with a total budget of 1500 and a desire for a 3-15 the 80-200 dollars on BUIS could be better spent on a better mount, glass, trigger or more ammo? |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2015 3:23:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WHSmithIV]
[#8]
Originally Posted By nickforney:
Am curious what we agree to on if back up iron sights or BUIS are a necessary part of rifles that you build. Lets pretend a new shooter has a limited budget of say 1500 dollars and wanted to put together a 3-15 power scoped rifle and get it out shooting. Would you suggest they spend between 80 and 200 dollars on a set of BUIS or not. The rifle would be used for coyote hunting plinking and could be picked up to defend the house if needed. The owner has a handgun and is looking to put together this rifle. So BUIS or not and the fun part is explaining why you feel this way. $1500 as a 'limited' budget? Well, I built my first rifle for $506.62 - I had a $500 budget. However, the sling and sling mounts are in the price and they weren't in the budget. BUIS sights were though. I had A.R.M.S BUIS sights on it. This is the rifle and everything on it was in the budget. I built it on a MAG Tactical Systems stripped lower receiver. A couple on-line buddies sent me a couple parts for free or it would have gone to close to $600. The AR 15 is not some long range sniper rifle with 5.56 ammo. It's a 'get the job done rifle' up to a few hundred yards. So, the typical AR 15 should definitely have iron sights. Besides, It's good to practice with them too. My piston driven AR has offset sights so as not to bother to remove the red dot and it's flip to side magnifier. 
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Posted: 6/19/2015 6:04:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: zackmars]
[#9]
Magpul buis can be found for 87
 $ on amazon, 90$ at Brownells,
Aside from ammo, i dont know what other quality accessory one could buy for that money Cheap insurance With a 1500 budget, you could cut costs in other places, like a anderson lower, a usgi or used bcm charging handle, wait for sales, etc |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2015 8:14:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lysanderxiii]
[#10]
Well, if you put a non-unity telescopic sight on the thing, you can't use iron sights unless you remove the scope, so "back-up iron sight" are of little use unless you also invest in a good quick release-return-to-zero scope mount.
BUIS aren't really all that important, here's why (opinions follow): 1) Home defense will be at very short range, like across the room short range, 50' max. You aught to be able to hit a man-sized target at 50' just looking over a red dot. 2) The chances of breaking a well made red dot in the civilian world are small, if you are deployed to the Afghan hills, maybe BUIS are a good idea, in your living room, less so... 3) If you put a 3x scope or greater, on a rifle, it isn't much of a short range weapon anymore, so unless your definition of HD is picking off bad guys running away at 100 meters*, it's not going to be much use in that role. __________________________ * Your local DA might not share that definition with you. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:08:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BillyDoubleU]
[#11]
Interesting.
I'd say in that scenario no, no I wouldn't suggest a set of BUIS. It's a yote gun with glass that may shoot some cans from time to time. The fact that it has the glass on it that it does, those BUIS would be useless in HD plus he has other options. On any pure hunting AR I do with an scope I can't see myself putting BUIS on it... Though I do hunt in Cartel land.... If I really overthought it I could be tempted to drop some cheaper Magpul BUIS on it... maybe. I'd say for any other general purpose AR then yeah, probably even the super fancy SPR's that are suppose to be someone's end-all/be-all AR. I personally only have one AR with an Aimpoint on it and on that I have some Troy BUIS. It's my supposed SHTF/EOTWAWKI AR but in reality it's just so damn pretty it became my Safe Queen... On a side note I am a huge fan of Irons before optics in most applications (civilian side). And funny enough, I shot my best group during this challenge using the Troy BUIS and Wolf ammo... But in the given OP, no need for BUIS. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:19:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Muad]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDoubleU: Interesting. I'd say in that scenario no, no I wouldn't suggest a set of BUIS. It's a yote gun with glass that may shoot some cans from time to time. The fact that it has the glass on it that it does, those BUIS would be useless in HD plus he has other options. On any pure hunting AR I do with an scope I can't see myself putting BUIS on it... Though I do hunt in Cartel land.... If I really overthought it I could be tempted to drop some cheaper Magpul BUIS on it... maybe. I'd say for any other general purpose AR then yeah, probably even the super fancy SPR's that are suppose to be someone's end-all/be-all AR. I personally only have one AR with an Aimpoint on it and on that I have some Troy BUIS. It's my supposed SHTF/EOTWAWKI AR but in reality it's just so damn pretty it became my Safe Queen... On a side note I am a huge fan of Irons before optics in most applications (civilian side). And funny enough, I shot my best group during this challenge using the Troy BUIS and Wolf ammo... But in the given OP, no need for BUIS. Amen! I feel that everyone should learn the fundamentals with irons before moving on to a RDS, magnified optic, etc. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 6:33:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Anything can happen with a scope. If you do not have a secondary means of sighting the rifle, it becomes ineffective. Think of BUISs as an insurance policy. It is better to have and not need than to not have when you need them. Out of all 35 of my ARs, everyone of them has iron sights, whether built into the carrying handle/FSB or flip-ups. Just like American Express use to say, "never leave home without it".
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2015 7:05:15 PM EDT
[#14]
On my carbine I run a variable scope in a Larue QD mount. My BUIS is an ARMS 40L. I like to shoot both ways.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2015 8:59:57 PM EDT
[#15]
given that situation, no. i wouldn't bother. unless i got a completely smokin deal. like someone selling off used mbus pro or troys for like $60. then sure. but only because it's such a good deal. as others have mentioned unless you have a qd scope you can't really use them. and at home defense ranges your handgun makes more sense, but even if for some reason your grabbed the AR, 10 feet is a point n shoot situation.
if it were your go to rifle for everything and anything, the sure why not. never know when the end of the world is. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:17:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrs93accord:
If you do not have a secondary means of sighting the rifle, it becomes ineffective. I would agree with "less effective" but not ineffective |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:22:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrs93accord:
Anything can happen with a scope. If you do not have a secondary means of sighting the rifle, it becomes ineffective. Think of BUISs as an insurance policy. It is better to have and not need than to not have when you need them. Out of all 35 of my ARs, everyone of them has iron sights, whether built into the carrying handle/FSB or flip-ups. Just like American Express use to say, "never leave home without it". True but given the OP's scenario? Unless his BUIS are off set or he has a quick detach mount would BUIS really be worth it on what is primarily a yote rifle? |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:25:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrs93accord:
Anything can happen with a scope. If you do not have a secondary means of sighting the rifle, it becomes ineffective. Think of BUISs as an insurance policy. It is better to have and not need than to not have when you need them. Out of all 35 of my ARs, everyone of them has iron sights, whether built into the carrying handle/FSB or flip-ups. Just like American Express use to say, "never leave home without it". So you would rather see a shooter pay additional money for a set of BUIS rather than spending additional money on his scope or rounds to train with. Point shooting is still a very valid option for when you 'need it' while taking off many kinds of scope mounts in a field environment is not so good. I was curious how many people would throw the insurance policy out there. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 9:31:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WHSmithIV:
$1500 as a 'limited' budget? Well, I built my first rifle for $506.62 - I had a $500 budget. However, the sling and sling mounts are in the price and they weren't in the budget. BUIS sights were though. I had A.R.M.S BUIS sights on it. This is the rifle and everything on it was in the budget. I built it on a MAG Tactical Systems stripped lower receiver. A couple on-line buddies sent me a couple parts for free or it would have gone to close to $600. The AR 15 is not some long range sniper rifle with 5.56 ammo. It's a 'get the job done rifle' up to a few hundred yards. So, the typical AR 15 should definitely have iron sights. Besides, It's good to practice with them too. My piston driven AR has offset sights so as not to bother to remove the red dot and it's flip to side magnifier. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/whsmith4th/P6263219_zps89521283.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WHSmithIV:
Originally Posted By nickforney:
Am curious what we agree to on if back up iron sights or BUIS are a necessary part of rifles that you build. Lets pretend a new shooter has a limited budget of say 1500 dollars and wanted to put together a 3-15 power scoped rifle and get it out shooting. Would you suggest they spend between 80 and 200 dollars on a set of BUIS or not. The rifle would be used for coyote hunting plinking and could be picked up to defend the house if needed. The owner has a handgun and is looking to put together this rifle. So BUIS or not and the fun part is explaining why you feel this way. $1500 as a 'limited' budget? Well, I built my first rifle for $506.62 - I had a $500 budget. However, the sling and sling mounts are in the price and they weren't in the budget. BUIS sights were though. I had A.R.M.S BUIS sights on it. This is the rifle and everything on it was in the budget. I built it on a MAG Tactical Systems stripped lower receiver. A couple on-line buddies sent me a couple parts for free or it would have gone to close to $600. The AR 15 is not some long range sniper rifle with 5.56 ammo. It's a 'get the job done rifle' up to a few hundred yards. So, the typical AR 15 should definitely have iron sights. Besides, It's good to practice with them too. My piston driven AR has offset sights so as not to bother to remove the red dot and it's flip to side magnifier. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/whsmith4th/P6263219_zps89521283.jpg I am going to pick on you. Understand that it is nothing personal. 1500 dollars is a limited budget for a quality hunting rifle with a quality scope mount and optic. This leaves very little left for add ons and some items would likely need to be budget. You show a rifle with a very cheap red dot sight. Very cheap red dot sights definitely need back up iron sights because they are known to fail. What if instead you had say a 1.1-4 vortex variable or a Leopold prismatic your iron sights again would not work down the line of sight but would be at an advantage in that 'few hundred yards' range you mentioned. I think the value in this mental exercise is to get out of our cookie cutter answer everything as what ever you have is best mode. |
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Posted: 6/19/2015 10:06:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#20]
The kicker here for me is that you said this rifle would be used for HD if the situation arose.
If said person was to ONLY use this weapon for hunting, I don't think it would much matter whether it had irons or not. Maybe if they had to hunt to eat. If it was kill or starve, then I see them as a benefit. If it's hunting for fun, or at least not out of necessity, then I don't think it matters if it has BUIS or not. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 11:01:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
So you would rather see a shooter pay additional money for a set of BUIS rather than spending additional money on his scope or rounds to train with. Point shooting is still a very valid option for when you 'need it' while taking off many kinds of scope mounts in a field environment is not so good. I was curious how many people would throw the insurance policy out there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
Anything can happen with a scope. If you do not have a secondary means of sighting the rifle, it becomes ineffective. Think of BUISs as an insurance policy. It is better to have and not need than to not have when you need them. Out of all 35 of my ARs, everyone of them has iron sights, whether built into the carrying handle/FSB or flip-ups. Just like American Express use to say, "never leave home without it". So you would rather see a shooter pay additional money for a set of BUIS rather than spending additional money on his scope or rounds to train with. Point shooting is still a very valid option for when you 'need it' while taking off many kinds of scope mounts in a field environment is not so good. I was curious how many people would throw the insurance policy out there. I will say this, a $1500 budget for a decent AR equipped with 3-9x scope and BUISs is sufficient enough. As long as you shop smart and buy what works well (does not have to be a big name brand), you can end up with a very nice AR equipped with what you need. Now, if you are stuck on the big brand name stuff, you may be hard pressed to build what you want with that budget. As far as BUISs go, you can buy a set of MAGPUL MBUSs for less than $90 in some cases. Sometimes, when you can catch them on sale, it is even less. The same goes for ARs, scopes, mounts, and various other accessories. Primary Arms has name brand scopes, as well as their own brand, that you can get in a scope/mount combo deal that saves up to around $30 on the mount. For a good dependable QD scope mount (American Defense, LaRue Tactical, BOBRO, and a few others), you will spend on average of $160-$210. You can buy some of the LEUPOLD and BURRIS QD mounts for $80-$120. I cannot tell anyone how they NEED to set up their AR, I can only make suggestions. It all depends on what is important to them. On the subject of point shooting, not everyone is good at that. Very few are. I learned how to do it almost 40 years ago and still use it from time to time. It is very applicable in a HD scenario, but not in the field where you may rely on accuracy of you shots. If your scope craps out for some reason, you are screwed if you do not have BUISs to fall back on. That is all. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 12:12:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary.
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Posted: 6/20/2015 12:25:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tweeter:
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary. Few are reading the given scenario. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 2:18:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tweeter:
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary. If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 2:39:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary. If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. At contact/point shooting distance do you think irons would be of any use what so ever when a variable powered scope is on it? |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 2:45:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
At contact/point shooting distance do you think irons would be of any use what so ever when a variable powered scope is on it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary. If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. At contact/point shooting distance do you think irons would be of any use what so ever when a variable powered scope is on it? I think that would depend on the setup. If said BUIS weren't offset and scope wasn't removed when not in "hunting use" meaning rifle is at home with said person, then the BUIS would at that point in time be useless. I think a dot piggybacking the scope would be much more useful in that scenario. But what I can tell you is even at point shooting distances I'd rather have irons than a 3-15. But a piggybacked Docter would rein supreme over all in this scenario IMO. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 9:01:32 PM EDT
[#27]
BUIS = YES
MUST IT BE ZEROED =YES MUST IT NE A CO WITNESS WITH THE RED DOT = YES- I PREFER ABSOLUTE CO WITNESS. i LIKE THE GG&G MAD , the magpul buis and the matech. I do not like the LM T KAC 300, KAC 600 or a Carry handle. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 9:53:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SD307:
BUIS = YES MUST IT BE ZEROED =YES MUST IT NE A CO WITNESS WITH THE RED DOT = YES- I PREFER ABSOLUTE CO WITNESS. i LIKE THE GG&G MAD , the magpul buis and the matech. I do not like the LM T KAC 300, KAC 600 or a Carry handle. you have given the cookie cutter answer for what you like. Co witness with a 3-9 or 3-15 isn't possible. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 11:52:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SD307:
BUIS = YES MUST IT BE ZEROED =YES MUST IT NE A CO WITNESS WITH THE RED DOT = YES- I PREFER ABSOLUTE CO WITNESS. i LIKE THE GG&G MAD , the magpul buis and the matech. I do not like the LM T KAC 300, KAC 600 or a Carry handle. I made this sort of response at first too but re-read the OP and realized that's not the conversation Nick is looking for. Re-read the OP again. Situation is its a hunting rifle with a 3-15 optic that may be used for home defense. The hunting rifle/may be used for home defense is where the kicker lies for BUIS/no BUIS, and is the sweet spot of what should be thought about/discussed |
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Posted: 6/21/2015 12:00:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Given your OP requirements for budget and mag optic.... my answer is no as the optic won't be easily removed in a stressful situation so it would be much better for him to use the handgun for HD.
However, I think it is beneficial to learn on irons and I think they are a necessity on a primary HD gun equipped with an RDO. I put BUIS on all my rifles out of habit and OCD. |
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Posted: 6/21/2015 12:04:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tweeter]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Sights are contextual, and in this context back-up sights are not necessary. If Nick didn't add the HD possibility to it I'd agree 100 percent. But no matter it's intended "main" use (in this case hunting), if it is the rifle he would also defend himself with then I disagree that it should be written off so easily. It's my experience that discussions based on semantics are best left to lawyers. eta: to respond, I would simply recommend a weapon light for the pistol. |
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Posted: 6/21/2015 12:24:19 AM EDT
[#32]
I don't recommend new shooters use anything but iron sights for awhile to learn how to actually shoot. BUIS are fine and good. I have had cause to use them twice in competitions once when my eotech died and once when I forgot to turn on my eotech and decided to shoot the stage anyway,
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Posted: 6/21/2015 12:36:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr:
I don't recommend new shooters use anything but iron sights for awhile to learn how to actually shoot. BUIS are fine and good. I have had cause to use them twice in competitions once when my eotech died and once when I forgot to turn on my eotech and decided to shoot the stage anyway, RDS =/= 3x15 Scope 
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Posted: 6/21/2015 1:01:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr:
I don't recommend new shooters use anything but iron sights for awhile to learn how to actually shoot. BUIS are fine and good. I have had cause to use them twice in competitions once when my eotech died and once when I forgot to turn on my eotech and decided to shoot the stage anyway, In order for said guy in the OP to make any sort of quick transition to BUIS they couldn't be traditional BUIS, they would have to be offset or piggybacked. If he was to use traditional BUIS for the HD role he would have to remove his scope when he gets home. Pain in the ass but doable. I still feel that a MRD piggybacking the 3-15 would be the best option though. Nothing would need to be removed, and let me tell ya, it's nice to have a dot piggybacking my NSN now instead of the NSN BUIS. Scope BUIS are not all that great. |
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Posted: 6/21/2015 5:19:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CrazyWhiteGuy]
[#35]
Originally Posted By nickforney:
Am curious what we agree to on if back up iron sights or BUIS are a necessary part of rifles that you build. Lets pretend a new shooter has a limited budget of say 1500 dollars and wanted to put together a 3-15 power scoped rifle and get it out shooting. Would you suggest they spend between 80 and 200 dollars on a set of BUIS or not. The rifle would be used for coyote hunting plinking and could be picked up to defend the house if needed. The owner has a handgun and is looking to put together this rifle. So BUIS or not and the fun part is explaining why you feel this way. I like AR15s with front sight bases, making BUIS a simple 40 dollar investment (used MAtech). I would also use a QD mount for the scope (larue/bobro/adm) unless home defense includes a large piece of property (and even if it does) inside of the house magnification has little to no use. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2015 11:09:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Grab a different gun for HD or offset irons.
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MT, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2015 8:47:31 PM EDT
[#37]
with the quality of todays 3-15 ish optics (thinking traditional syle) heck I think we can even lower the standards quite a bit, to even many of the less expensive imports, Going with the original concept of this rifle of hunting ect, HD is a maybe, and having a side arm, I gotta say NO, I don't see modern scopes in the "hunting" type of 3-15 rarely to if ever failing, Ive some that are 30 years old still doing fine.
Ive got a wall full of "hunting,plinking ect " rifles all scoped and not one has a BUIS, Where would you even put them on win mod 70, or rem 700 or savage 110 ect we trust those "scopes" to always get the job done, but we don't trust the ones on AR's cause its just another 'what if" to justify? |
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Posted: 6/23/2015 12:55:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SD307]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
you have given the cookie cutter answer for what you like. Co witness with a 3-9 or 3-15 isn't possible. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By SD307:
BUIS = YES MUST IT BE ZEROED =YES MUST IT NE A CO WITNESS WITH THE RED DOT = YES- I PREFER ABSOLUTE CO WITNESS. i LIKE THE GG&G MAD , the magpul buis and the matech. I do not like the LM T KAC 300, KAC 600 or a Carry handle. you have given the cookie cutter answer for what you like. Co witness with a 3-9 or 3-15 isn't possible. on my a4 clone with an Acog & a matech on it if the buis is needed the Acog can be removed why can't/won't a similiar QD setup be used? larue makes grest qd mounts that don't need rezeroed. use the BUIS as backups next I would recommend a burris PRPR mount you can mount a micro red dot fastfire or RMR on the rings. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2015 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#39]
I would at a minimum pick up some cheap BUIS from Amazon. Even if they suck they are better than nothing. They start at $25 or so.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2015 2:30:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I have Troy BUIS on all of my guns that have optics... I have not zeroed the BUIS on any of my guns that have optics. I'm an asshole.
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Posted: 6/23/2015 3:16:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Crash41984:
I have Troy BUIS on all of my guns that have optics... I have not zeroed the BUIS on any of my guns that have optics. I'm an asshole. How many guns like that do you have? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2015 8:57:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redleg37:
I would at a minimum pick up some cheap BUIS from Amazon. Even if they suck they are better than nothing. They start at $25 or so. Having experienced some of those $25 BUIS off Amazon, you can do just as well with nothing.... |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 9:50:39 AM EDT
[#43]
I voted the sheep option as I'm on the fence.
I do have them but I believe they are superfluous as my ACOGs are more durable that the BUIS and my Aimpoints aren't too far behind. I certainly don't pay a lot for them. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:28:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cttb]
[#44]
It is beyond my understanding how those millions of hunters who have used scoped bolt-action rifles without back-up irons all these many years have managed to take even a single animal!
Obviously, I voted no. BUIS on a coyote gun is a waste of space and money. How many people have personally had a scope they paid more than $300 for in the last 20 years fail to the point that you could not finish your hunt? I'm sure it happens, but it can't be common. How many people have scoped rifles with BUIS but don't always carry the tools necessary to remove the scope to use the BUIS? If you have BUIS "just in case," you better either have offsets, a QD, or tools. I had my eureka moment with BUIS when I was building a fun gun with a fixed 4x scope and an offset red dot. I was about to throw BUIS on it too and realized the ridiculousness of that set up. BUIS are great if you really need them, i.e. military, law enforcement, extended back country hunts, etc. They're also great if you just want them or like the way they look. I think very few people actually need BUIS, and I would not criticize anyone for deciding not to put them on their rifle. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:34:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cttb:
It is beyond my understanding how those millions of hunters who have used scoped bolt-action rifles without back-up irons all these many years have managed to take even a single animal!
Obviously, I voted no. BUIS on a coyote gun is a waste of space and money. How many people have personally had a scope they paid more than $300 for in the last 20 years fail to the point that you could not finish your hunt? I'm sure it happens, but it can't be common. How many people have scoped rifles with BUIS but don't always carry the tools necessary to remove the scope to use the BUIS? If you have BUIS "just in case," you better either have offsets, a QD, or tools. I had my Eureka moment with BUIS when I was building a fun gun with a fixed 4x scope and an offset red dot. I was about to throw BUIS on it too and realized the ridiculousness of that set up. BUIS are great if you really need them, i.e. military, law enforcement, extended back country hunts, etc. They're also great if you just want them or like the way they look. However, I think very few people actually need them, and I would not criticize anyone for deciding not to put them on their rifle. The difference is the fact that it's an AR. That, for whatever reason dramatically changes people's thought process and inevitably (which seems to be the point of this thread) creates people "cookie cutter" answers. How many saying yes to BUIS on this coyote hunting rifle that happens to be an AR would also say yes to BUIS on rem 700 in the same application. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
The difference is the fact that it's an AR. That, for whatever reason dramatically changes people's thought process and inevitably (which seems to be the point of this thread) creates people "cookie cutter" answers. How many saying yes to BUIS on this coyote hunting rifle that happens to be an AR would also say yes to BUIS on rem 700 in the same application. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By cttb:
It is beyond my understanding how those millions of hunters who have used scoped bolt-action rifles without back-up irons all these many years have managed to take even a single animal!
Obviously, I voted no. BUIS on a coyote gun is a waste of space and money. How many people have personally had a scope they paid more than $300 for in the last 20 years fail to the point that you could not finish your hunt? I'm sure it happens, but it can't be common. How many people have scoped rifles with BUIS but don't always carry the tools necessary to remove the scope to use the BUIS? If you have BUIS "just in case," you better either have offsets, a QD, or tools. I had my Eureka moment with BUIS when I was building a fun gun with a fixed 4x scope and an offset red dot. I was about to throw BUIS on it too and realized the ridiculousness of that set up. BUIS are great if you really need them, i.e. military, law enforcement, extended back country hunts, etc. They're also great if you just want them or like the way they look. However, I think very few people actually need them, and I would not criticize anyone for deciding not to put them on their rifle. The difference is the fact that it's an AR. That, for whatever reason dramatically changes people's thought process and inevitably (which seems to be the point of this thread) creates people "cookie cutter" answers. How many saying yes to BUIS on this coyote hunting rifle that happens to be an AR would also say yes to BUIS on rem 700 in the same application. I wanted a rem700 with irons, but they make em in every caliber but 308. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:47:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CrazyWhiteGuy:
I wanted a rem700 with irons, but they make em in every caliber but 308. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CrazyWhiteGuy:
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By cttb:
It is beyond my understanding how those millions of hunters who have used scoped bolt-action rifles without back-up irons all these many years have managed to take even a single animal!
Obviously, I voted no. BUIS on a coyote gun is a waste of space and money. How many people have personally had a scope they paid more than $300 for in the last 20 years fail to the point that you could not finish your hunt? I'm sure it happens, but it can't be common. How many people have scoped rifles with BUIS but don't always carry the tools necessary to remove the scope to use the BUIS? If you have BUIS "just in case," you better either have offsets, a QD, or tools. I had my Eureka moment with BUIS when I was building a fun gun with a fixed 4x scope and an offset red dot. I was about to throw BUIS on it too and realized the ridiculousness of that set up. BUIS are great if you really need them, i.e. military, law enforcement, extended back country hunts, etc. They're also great if you just want them or like the way they look. However, I think very few people actually need them, and I would not criticize anyone for deciding not to put them on their rifle. The difference is the fact that it's an AR. That, for whatever reason dramatically changes people's thought process and inevitably (which seems to be the point of this thread) creates people "cookie cutter" answers. How many saying yes to BUIS on this coyote hunting rifle that happens to be an AR would also say yes to BUIS on rem 700 in the same application. I wanted a rem700 with irons, but they make em in every caliber but 308. Lol I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't take one that came with irons. I just really like irons. But I wouldn't go out of my way to add them. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 12:33:31 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm surprised the poll is as skewed as it is. I voted no, not in this situation. Like others have mentioned, the shooter would need to utilize a QD mount, which adds a substantial cost, or they need to buy offset BUIS and learn to use them effectively. I suspect that a new shooter would have better fortune instinctively pointing and shooting in a defensive scenario than they would rotating the gun, getting a good sight picture and firing. I rarely hunt, so I may be mistaken, but isn't coyote hunting often done in low light? If so, the extra money would be FAR better spent on a quality scope! If not, I'd still put the money saved into a better scope or trigger.
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Posted: 6/24/2015 1:31:09 PM EDT
[#49]
I voted before reading the OP (the hazards of a poll that appears at the top, I guess) and voted yes. Having now read the scenario, a few things come to mind:
First, a coyote gun with magnified scope will not make a very useful home defense weapon. You could put offset irons on it, but the guy already has a handgun, so...why? True BUIS will be of no value for home defense unless the invader gives you advance notice of their impending attack. My answer is no BUIS and just forego the concept of using it as a home defense weapon (unless you mean shooting a looter at 100 yards in a true SHTF scenario). |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2015 2:29:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
How many guns like that do you have? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickforney:
Originally Posted By Crash41984:
I have Troy BUIS on all of my guns that have optics... I have not zeroed the BUIS on any of my guns that have optics. I'm an asshole. How many guns like that do you have? Sorry, just realized my comment made me sound like I had a crazy AR collection. I did have three three, but now just two. Troy front and rear on my .50 Beowulf. I have a TR24 in a LT-104 on it, BUIS were never zeroed, but it's basically just a deer hunting rifle. The other is just a rear on a RRA with a T1 on it. I guess I fall in the better to have, and have never needed camp. Then again, I don't carry a rifle for a living. |
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