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Posted: 9/13/2022 10:38:52 PM EDT
I've finally nailed down some permanent (lol) AR setups and my secondary rifle is now a 16" recce-style with a SWFA 10X.
After zeroing at the range, finding a half a mag of random Hornady ammo and getting a .7" group out of it without even really trying, I've decided that it needs to be taken seriously. I need to grab a few hundred rounds of appropriate ammo for it now. I have another setup for hunting, so this will be strictly for defensive/offensive use and maybe light competition along with occasional long range practice out to 800yds. I'm in mostly flat plains with light hills, but something capable of accurately penetrating light brush would be handy. Barrel is 1/7 twist. In order of importance for this particular rifle: 1. Accuracy 2. Effectiveness I'm not too worried about price but I don't want to spend $4 a round either. It doesn't particularly like 62gr Fusion, but then again none of my rifles have. M193 is about 2MOA in it. 855 was a little worse. I've heard good things about Gold Dots but have only used them in handguns. Suggestions? |
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"Beware the fury of a patient man" - John Dryden
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God" - Simon Bradstreet "I may crossdress but I don't dress like a whore" - LittlePony CTR AFG 11,12,13,19,20,21 CTR IRQ 21,22 |
I think many have decided that 77gr, of whatever flavor, tends to fit into what you’re wanting (decent all-around round) best.
Sierra seems to be king at making the bullet. Several companies load them. IMI makes some good 77gr ammo. Federal, SIG, etc. |
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FPNI
IMI 77 Razor core |
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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human. https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/the-four-causes-of-classical-education/ |
Originally Posted By Iseifert: I think many have decided that 77gr, of whatever flavor, tends to fit into what you’re wanting (decent all-around round) best. Sierra seems to be king at making the bullet. Several companies load them. IMI makes some good 77gr ammo. Federal, SIG, etc. View Quote I've had great luck as far as accuracy with Sierra 308 bullets but haven't tried them in my ARs yet. Do SMKs tend to have decent terminal performance on par with dedicated defensive rounds? |
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"Beware the fury of a patient man" - John Dryden
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God" - Simon Bradstreet "I may crossdress but I don't dress like a whore" - LittlePony CTR AFG 11,12,13,19,20,21 CTR IRQ 21,22 |
My White Oak 18" SPR shoots Razor Core around an inch and PMC XTAC 77gr about .8 or so. Hand loads are better obviously.
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A guys son said they were using the Barnes TSX in a military round and terminal performance was excellent. My kids have taken two bucks with the 70 gr bullet and they died where they were standing. Accuracy was phenomenal out of 18 inch barrel. Loaded ammo with it is not cheap but it is out there.
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I use Black Hills 77gr OTM in my precision setups but I hear IMI Razor core is excellent as well.
Centurion Arms mk12 with NF ATACR in C1 mount and Surefire can. Attached File |
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Shoot, Move, and Communicate
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I’ve had good luck with the IMI 77gr. I also handload 77 Matchkings in an attempt to clone MK262 mod 1.
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77gr tipped matchking is a substantial upgrade over the SMK. The latter bullet has a surprisingly high frag threshold of ~2200 fps. If you’re concerned about barrier performance, the Barnes 70gr TSX would be a better option even though it isn’t truly barrier blind. It can lose petals after going through auto glass, but at least it won’t underpenetrate. Bullets that are truly barrier blind, like the 62gr Gold Dot/Fusion you’ve tried, have rather low BCs and aren’t available in factory 5.56 loads. Maybe you could try reloading the 70gr Gold Dot.
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The Tipped Match King is less likely to be accurate in any particular rifle, it’s ogive is less forgiving. The GMX looks promising but I’ve never tried it.
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The Tipped Match King is less likely to be accurate in any particular rifle, it’s ogive is less forgiving. The GMX looks promising but I’ve never tried it. View Quote How bad is the dispersion with the 77gr TMK in your rifle? The substantially longer frag range and higher BC should make it more effective at distance even if the dispersion is a little wider. The full pressure 5.56mm GMX factory loads have one of those distributor restrictions where they’ll only sell to cops, soldiers and a curious assortment of civilian jobs like EMTs and prison guards. If you can reload, the 70gr GMX could be worth a shot. It shouldn’t have the petal issue that the Barnes TSX exhibits. |
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IMI Razorcore 77gr comes to mind, as well as Hornady 75gr BTHP. Black Hills makes a good 77gr load too,
The truth is, however, that the BEST way to reach the accuracy potential of this rifle is going to be hand loading. |
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The Tipped Match King is less likely to be accurate in any particular rifle, it’s ogive is less forgiving. The GMX looks promising but I’ve never tried it. View Quote FWIW: I've had OUTSTANDING accuracy with the 77 TMK, in several uppers. But it is hard to find and more expensive than the SMK's. I'm a green box guy so I cant recommend the 77's enough........ great consistant accuracy. Otherwise: FPNI. |
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Originally Posted By pepe-lepew: A guys son said they were using the Barnes TSX in a military round and terminal performance was excellent. My kids have taken two bucks with the 70 gr bullet and they died where they were standing. Accuracy was phenomenal out of 18 inch barrel. Loaded ammo with it is not cheap but it is out there. View Quote There is, only select unit can get it though. To your point, I’ve had excellent results with 70gr TSX on deer and hogs. It’s all I will use for hunting out of an AR. The TSX line leaves a bit to be desired in terms of BC, however, where I hunt with it it makes no difference. They do make a 77gr LRX which would obviously have higher BC but haven’t messed with it yet. My best hand load for 5.56 chamber: 25.5gr Varget (near max and compressed) 2.250 COAL Wolf SR primer LC Brass Should be around 2700fps out of a 16in but haven’t confirmed yet. |
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Frontier 75gr T2. The T2 bullet fragments down a relatively low speed.
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Originally Posted By MadMonkey: I need to grab a few hundred rounds of appropriate ammo for it now. I have another setup for hunting, so this will be strictly for defensive/offensive use and maybe light competition along with occasional long range practice out to 800yds. I'm in mostly flat plains with light hills, but something capable of accurately penetrating light brush would be handy. Barrel is 1/7 twist. In order of importance for this particular rifle: 1. Accuracy 2. Effectiveness Suggestions? View Quote If you have a good floated barrel, a decent trigger, a clear scope, and good form, 750-800 yards is fairly easy and do-able with a 16-inch carbine. Hornady 75s start opening up groups with dispersion around 875 from an 18-inch barrel. As for effectiveness, you have to hit it first. No 5.56 / .223 is going to guarantee an instant kill at any range. |
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TBH I'd bit the bullet and get set up for reloading, even if just on a single stage press. For the cost of a case of "meh" ball ammo you can get all the equipment needed. And then you can built quality ammo for 35c/rnd and up even at today's prices (bullet cost is where you'll pay...)
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Even though I'm not commenting much, I'm still following this thread and paying attention. Some great info in here, thank y'all very much
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"Beware the fury of a patient man" - John Dryden
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God" - Simon Bradstreet "I may crossdress but I don't dress like a whore" - LittlePony |
Hornady's GMX bullets have been discontinued. Their replacement CX Expanding has only 50 grain .224 caliber bullets for sale. Nothing heavier for .224's...
BULLET BULLETIN: GOING FROM GOOD TO GREAT Hornady CX Bullet Line |
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SMK were never designed for expansion or defensive use. They are target bullets that have pressed into defensive use over the years.
But, because they are the gold standard factory accuracy loaded ammo. The govt was using them in M852 ammo, which was initially just meant for target use. Then the Army changed their mind on it here |
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jme and I am a NRA Endowment Member
Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions. All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. R W Emerson |
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