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USA
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Posted: 12/11/2023 9:56:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: SureFire has just released a statement (not a denial) on Instagram regarding flash performance of the RC3. Maybe they can work on a RC3-C that works with the closed tine muzzle devices 
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LA, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 9:13:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rightwing87: Maybe they can work on a RC3-C that works with the closed tine muzzle devices Or maybe they should have designed a suppressor that isn't worse in every way except for back pressure while also being way more expensive. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:17:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Inverted_Polarity: Or maybe they should have designed a suppressor that isn't worse in every way except for back pressure while also being way more expensive. It's almost like there are tradeoffs on everything and no magic can out there. In general, it would be nice to see some more completely 3rd party analysis and demonstration before letting the group-think hate-train get rolling at full speed straight downhill, but probably too late. The RC3 is now declared terrible at flash suppression! Someone on Reddit said it. Regardless, I believe these truly are designed with only the requirements of large institutional customers (the military) taken into consideration, and I doubt Surefire will be too butthurt about the civi opinion as long as the can meets the requirements for the customers it was designed for. But that of course brings in some speculation on my part. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:38:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: It's almost like there are tradeoffs on everything and no magic can out there. In general, it would be nice to see some more completely 3rd party analysis and demonstration before letting the group-think hate-train get rolling at full speed straight downhill, but probably too late. The RC3 is now declared terrible at flash suppression! Someone on Reddit said it. Regardless, I believe these truly are designed with only the requirements of large institutional customers (the military) taken into consideration, and I doubt Surefire will be too butthurt about the civi opinion as long as the can meets the requirements for the customers it was designed for. But that of course brings in some speculation on my part. Yeah, I think they’re focusing on AHAAH rather than decibels, and the toxic gasses angle. The cost may be because they had to do a ton of development, and have military customers in mind. I don’t think I’ll be buying one because I’m not married to their mounts and don’t want to be. But I bet its exactly what someone is asking for. A possible explanation for the can’s flash with different muzzle devices is that the devices direct less or more gas into the bypass portion rather than the baffles. Just speculating. I still think there’s something going on in that picture. I don’t think the Flaming Pig is even quite that bad, nor is a bare muzzle, so something must be “enhancing” the flash in that pic. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 1:01:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: It's almost like there are tradeoffs on everything and no magic can out there. In general, it would be nice to see some more completely 3rd party analysis and demonstration before letting the group-think hate-train get rolling at full speed straight downhill, but probably too late. The RC3 is now declared terrible at flash suppression! Someone on Reddit said it. Regardless, I believe these truly are designed with only the requirements of large institutional customers (the military) taken into consideration, and I doubt Surefire will be too butthurt about the civi opinion as long as the can meets the requirements for the customers it was designed for. But that of course brings in some speculation on my part. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: It's almost like there are tradeoffs on everything and no magic can out there. In general, it would be nice to see some more completely 3rd party analysis and demonstration before letting the group-think hate-train get rolling at full speed straight downhill, but probably too late. The RC3 is now declared terrible at flash suppression! Someone on Reddit said it. Regardless, I believe these truly are designed with only the requirements of large institutional customers (the military) taken into consideration, and I doubt Surefire will be too butthurt about the civi opinion as long as the can meets the requirements for the customers it was designed for. But that of course brings in some speculation on my part. If Reddit does one thing well is it will take any fuel it can find to feed its echo chamber and run with it. When a photo gets posted that can't be traced back to a source or is taken in such a way to provide as little context as possible should have been grounds enough to give pause, but the confirmation bias is too strong for some. It's funny how the RC2 went from the best can in existence to "surefire was and has never been good" as soon as the price tag of the RC3 was announced (obvious "poors" joke writes itself). Very tinfoil hat, but I wouldn't doubt the photo was staged knowing how easy it would be to cause damage right now. Originally Posted By 1168RGR: Yeah, I think they’re focusing on AHAAH rather than decibels, and the toxic gasses angle. The cost may be because they had to do a ton of development, and have military customers in mind. Both a blessing and a curse that the market seems to be shifting this way now. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 1:12:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Both a blessing and a curse that the market seems to be shifting this way now. I fear that one day we’ll look back and think, “remember back when silencers used to be more effective?”. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 2:06:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bradpierson26: Yes And heavy and not cheap And they won’t update the SF3P so it doesnt ping And is prone to getting stuck and SF’s advice is to “shoot it off” Shoot it off? Sounds like a recipe for RMA. Is the mount actually that bad? Surprising that they don't at least incorporate wrench flats to aid removal in a carbon lock event. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 2:31:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Shoot it off? Sounds like a recipe for RMA. Is the mount actually that bad? Surprising that they don't at least incorporate wrench flats to aid removal in a carbon lock event. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Yes And heavy and not cheap And they won’t update the SF3P so it doesnt ping And is prone to getting stuck and SF’s advice is to “shoot it off” Shoot it off? Sounds like a recipe for RMA. Is the mount actually that bad? Surprising that they don't at least incorporate wrench flats to aid removal in a carbon lock event. The can is rather durable, shooting it off won't cause any actual damage to it. I've used a legacy Surefire can since 2008 and picked up an original SOCOM can not long after, never personally had a can that I couldn't get off. Just have a pair of nomex gloves, or asbestos, and pull it off when it's hot. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 2:49:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zerlak: The can is rather durable, shooting it off won't cause any actual damage to it. I've used a legacy Surefire can since 2008 and picked up an original SOCOM can not long after, never personally had a can that I couldn't get off. Just have a pair of nomex gloves, or asbestos, and pull it off when it's hot. Interesting reddit about this issue. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 5:10:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Shoot it off? Sounds like a recipe for RMA. Is the mount actually that bad? Surprising that they don't at least incorporate wrench flats to aid removal in a carbon lock event. In my experience, no. I have had several near 4 digit round count trainings and never had it get carbon locked with the normal 3-prong. The only time I have had one carbon lock was recently when I got my JAKL that came with the warcomp 3 prong, locked on after about 300 rounds. I expect 50% of the people who complain about it don't own a surefire, 45% are using warcomps, and the last 5% really run their guns hard. In other news Surefire released a PSA in regards to this problem. Gross Instagram Link The TL;DR is the internal geometry was only really made to run on their 3 and 4 prongs. Using anything else (brake and closed tine) will result in reduced performance. Honestly seems silly that half their of muzzle device lineup is just unviable with the RC3, but at the same time I can see where they are coming from. When trying to engineer a suppressor that does what the Flow does but better I guess they decided they couldn't do it universally. This also explains why we saw no indication of flashing during all the videos as they more than likely were all using the "proper" muzzle device. At the end of the day I feel I can rest easy on the purchase now knowing the cause and cure to the problem, but I have to say again that this is silly. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:06:30 PM EDT
[#11]
They didn't say it was unviable... they just said it was optimized for the open tines.
The first half of this video is an 11.5 barrel with a CTN, and H335 powder (no can): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVDuvYcnH8E How you are going to get from that to huge fireballs with any can on, I have no idea. But until I see some sort of actual pattern outside a couple still photos that don't even assuredly show what they purport to show... said photos would have zero bearing on whether I would buy the can. ymmv. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 8:16:30 PM EDT
[#12]
It doesn't make sense for Surefire, who have millions to spend in R&D and dozens of engineers, to release a can that performs worse. You gotta think if MIL contracts are what they are going for, NSWC/Selection Committees/etc, they aren't stupid. They'd run their own tests for picking a suppressor. Surefire clearly can't be that stupid and spend all that time and effort and be ok with a flashy can.
Something is up in that photo. Side note: Find it pretty funny how the hate bandwagon works. We might even get back to Olights being good cause the Turbo lights are now "mid". |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:00:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick:How you are going to get from that to huge fireballs with any can on, I have no idea. But until I see some sort of actual pattern outside a couple still photos that don't even assuredly show what they purport to show... said photos would have zero bearing on whether I would buy the can. ymmv. By accumulating unburned powder within the unconventional geometry and then directing everything forwards like a big blast diverter and sporadically igniting it, perhaps. hoody2shoez corroborated some of this, too. I've read enough of his posts to trust him on something like this, if it somehow makes it more valid to be on ARF and not Reddit. I'm in the "interesting...wait and see" syndicate. It wouldn't be the first time particular SF muzzle devices caused significantly different results in some way. Is it possible that everything we have seen is true, it has exceptional flash performance with open tines and Black Hills ammo AND it's a vintage flamethrower that makes the Sandman K look good with closed tines and common folk ammo? It would be a very radical difference but I'm here on the internet to try and learn. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:44:45 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:53:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#15]
At this point, I would want to see someone shoot the can next to something else more known for flash before I would buy whatever happened at the introductory event. I could see how cherry picked ammo could make a huge impact on performance. There are some rounds with flash retardant. Most don't have that. The RC2 itself would often have 6" pencil or sharpy sized flash during firing. It wasn't bad or totally exceptional, and the RC3 being low backpressure could easily have more flash and it obviously has more sound.
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Posted: 12/13/2023 12:19:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryShot with a buddy this weekend who has an RC2. I have a GA M4SD-K mod 4. Mine blew his out of the water with sound, back pressure, and flash. Multiple comments on it from others. The RC3 being louder with more flash than an RC2. Pass.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 4:22:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hoody2shoez]
[#17]
The muzzle device thing makes sense. I think people forget flow through is designed to be less intrusive on the cycle of operations for people whom aren't going to tune (.gov) and comes at the cost of performance. And the pendulum swings yet again.
They aren't winning contracts because of performance. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:34:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DDS87]
[#18]
PEW Science offers an educated explanation about how the RC3 flash difference depending on muzzle device could be possible, starting at 22:12.
 Episode 191 - PTR VENT 3 on the MK18 and Surefire RC3 Flash Reduction Performance (13-DEC-2023) ETA: Reddit poster HuntConsMarc has an RC3, 2 muzzle devices, and a 11.5 mid-length and will post his findings on his YouTube ASAP. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 12:37:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: marinc]
[#19]
What rifle setup and ammo? for the RC2 and the M4SD-K?
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 12:45:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: But until I see some sort of actual pattern outside a couple still photos that don't even assuredly show what they purport to show... said photos would have zero bearing on whether I would buy the can. ymmv. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: But until I see some sort of actual pattern outside a couple still photos that don't even assuredly show what they purport to show... said photos would have zero bearing on whether I would buy the can. ymmv. The problem is Surefire posted their statement WITH a copy of that picture attached with no denial, basically an admission that it can happen. I fully agree it makes zero sense how something can generate a larger fireball with a suppressor than a bare muzzle. I think the unspent gunpowder build up mentioned earlier is likely to blame. Originally Posted By DefenderAO:The RC3 being louder with more flash than an RC2. Not sure why people keep parroting this narrative, we have a couple night shooting videos of it now performing better than the RC2 (so long as you are using the correct muzzle device). If a full auto mag dump produces no flash, then I'm not sure what will. Originally Posted By DDS87: ETA: Reddit poster HuntConsMarc has an RC3, 2 muzzle devices, and a 11.5 mid-length and will post his findings on his YouTube ASAP. From what I have seen it appears the RC3 is better than the RC2 in terms of flash suppression with correct muzzle device. But I always welcome a more independent person to prove me wrong because the worst that happens is I save $1800. I'm almost thankfull for this mild controversy to have arrived as it is now getting people to actually put up more videos. .gov aren't the smartest people when it comes to procurement, but it had to have passed the SOCOM/SURGE test. I can only speculate that USSOCOM would look somewhere else if it was generating fireballs like this with their issued equipment. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 1:10:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#21]
There seems to be a lot of emphasis on osha air quality and on interactions during training with the suppressors especially at units where enormous amounts of training range time will occur.
If the fight was the emphasis, the concerns would be on survivability of the soldier, and then sound and flash would matter more. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 1:21:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: .gov aren't the smartest people when it comes to procurement, but it had to have passed the SOCOM/SURGE test. I can only speculate that USSOCOM would look somewhere else if it was generating fireballs like this with their issued equipment. The idea wasn't maximum suppression the idea is a single device that's capable across multiple platforms without needing to mess with the system. Just plug and play. You'd be surprised what even socom places priority on. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 2:07:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#23]
Originally Posted By Green0: There seems to be a lot of emphasis on osha air quality and on interactions during training with the suppressors especially at units where enormous amounts of training range time will occur. If the fight was the emphasis, the concerns would be on survivability of the soldier, and then sound and flash would matter more. Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: The idea wasn't maximum suppression the idea is a single device that's capable across multiple platforms without needing to mess with the system. Just plug and play. You'd be surprised what even socom places priority on. It just seems so irrational they would prioritize reducing the gas you suck in that might lead to health issues 20 years from now over your body spontaneously bursting into gunshot wounds right now because you are wielding a beacon that gives your position away at the end of your gun. I know .gov can be dumb, but even a crayon connoisseur can see where this path ends. If the coming tests show the RC3 is a fireball maker regardless of muzzle device then I really feel bad for the next generation of soldiers that get issued one. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 2:32:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Has the government been using the warcomp or brake? At the program level not individual or unit purchase.
If they buy the SF4P and the RC3 performs on it, case closed. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 3:28:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: It just seems so irrational they would prioritize reducing the gas you suck in that might lead to health issues 20 years from now over your body spontaneously bursting into gunshot wounds right now because you are wielding a beacon that gives your position away at the end of your gun. I know .gov can be dumb, but even a crayon connoisseur can see where this path ends. If the coming tests show the RC3 is a fireball maker regardless of muzzle device then I really feel bad for the next generation of soldiers that get issued one. Why would soldiers be getting issued an RC3? What military units have contracts with surefire for the RC3? |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 4:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ngc1300: Why would soldiers be getting issued an RC3? What military units have contracts with surefire for the RC3? There are probably very few units being issued them. They probably are considered a more ideal training can for units that shoot more than 15,000 rounds per man per year on the carbine, for the osha lung safety stuff. The can is likely for this recent low back pressure emphasis, and more of a strategic move for Surefire in their estimation of where the market for purchasing might be going, than it is an actual large scale issued item. The irony of these moves is that many of the military shoot houses are still totally without active HVAC ventilation to get the smoke away from the shooters, so this is like a bandaid on a sucking chest wound for that lung safety issue. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 4:24:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: There seems to be a lot of emphasis on osha air quality and on interactions during training with the suppressors especially at units where enormous amounts of training range time will occur. If the fight was the emphasis, the concerns would be on survivability of the soldier, and then sound and flash would matter more. I doubt the units would want to deal with the logistics, but maybe they could procure both a training suppressor with priority on reduced gas inhilatiok risk, and then a combat suppressor that prioritizes muzzle signature. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 4:37:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott:If they buy the SF4P and the RC3 performs on it, case closed. This is pretty much where I am at on this situation, if it works on the muzzle device Surefire wants you to use then that's good enough. If its a flashy mess regardless of muzzle device then I save myself $1800. Something in the back of my mind though says it will be fine when used as prescribed. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 6:01:36 PM EDT
[#29]
 SUREFIRE RC3 FLASH TEST |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 6:17:54 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 12/13/2023 6:19:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#31]
Looks like black hills special ammo really gave the RC3 a solid bump in the launch content.
A couple combinations with 10-12” pencil flash, a couple massive fireballs. Nothing impressive about that. And comparing it to a mini is setting a low bar for expectations. We shot our promos and flash testing with m193. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 6:32:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: Looks like black hills special ammo really gave the RC3 a solid bump in the launch content. A couple combinations with 10-12" pencil flash, a couple massive fireballs. Nothing impressive about that. And comparing it to a mini is setting a low bar for expectations. We shot our promos and flash testing with m193. It looks like they don't like the closed tine flash hiders, which you shouldn't be using if you care about suppression anyways. It's making a mountain out of a mole hill. The BTO video shows breaks performing about the same between the rc2 and rc3. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 6:41:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_Blaster]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: In my experience, no. I have had several near 4 digit round count trainings and never had it get carbon locked with the normal 3-prong. The only time I have had one carbon lock was recently when I got my JAKL that came with the warcomp 3 prong, locked on after about 300 rounds. I expect 50% of the people who complain about it don't own a surefire, 45% are using warcomps, and the last 5% really run their guns hard. In other news Surefire released a PSA in regards to this problem. Gross Instagram Link The TL;DR is the internal geometry was only really made to run on their 3 and 4 prongs. Using anything else (brake and closed tine) will result in reduced performance. Honestly seems silly that half their of muzzle device lineup is just unviable with the RC3, but at the same time I can see where they are coming from. When trying to engineer a suppressor that does what the Flow does but better I guess they decided they couldn't do it universally. This also explains why we saw no indication of flashing during all the videos as they more than likely were all using the "proper" muzzle device. At the end of the day I feel I can rest easy on the purchase now knowing the cause and cure to the problem, but I have to say again that this is silly. I find this both interesting & curious, considering that the mount threads on the FH are exposed to the "elements", & don't reside behind any kind of taper. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:36:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: castlebravo84]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: I find this both interesting & curious, considering that the mount threads on the FH are exposed to the "elements", & don't reside behind any kind of taper. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-fecqh2764q/images/stencil/100x100/products/870/739/SF3P-762-1-2-28-BK-isoL__34104.1616780970.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: Originally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: In my experience, no. I have had several near 4 digit round count trainings and never had it get carbon locked with the normal 3-prong. The only time I have had one carbon lock was recently when I got my JAKL that came with the warcomp 3 prong, locked on after about 300 rounds. I expect 50% of the people who complain about it don't own a surefire, 45% are using warcomps, and the last 5% really run their guns hard. In other news Surefire released a PSA in regards to this problem. Gross Instagram Link The TL;DR is the internal geometry was only really made to run on their 3 and 4 prongs. Using anything else (brake and closed tine) will result in reduced performance. Honestly seems silly that half their of muzzle device lineup is just unviable with the RC3, but at the same time I can see where they are coming from. When trying to engineer a suppressor that does what the Flow does but better I guess they decided they couldn't do it universally. This also explains why we saw no indication of flashing during all the videos as they more than likely were all using the "proper" muzzle device. At the end of the day I feel I can rest easy on the purchase now knowing the cause and cure to the problem, but I have to say again that this is silly. I find this both interesting & curious, considering that the mount threads on the FH are exposed to the "elements", & don't reside behind any kind of taper. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-fecqh2764q/images/stencil/100x100/products/870/739/SF3P-762-1-2-28-BK-isoL__34104.1616780970.jpg Those aren't threads you are looking at. There are no threads on that muzzle device other than the barrel interface. Consider where the gas coming out of the ports on a war comp might go and you will figure out why it tends to carbon lock. Also look at the pewscience RC2 data to see how much louder the RC2 is on a war comp due to gas coming out the back of the mount. 
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:36:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#35]
Quote HistoryYah this is exactly what I expected, it performs as advertised with the correct muzzle device. Mini3 is back on the menu. Edit: After re-watching the SF3P section on BTO's video, the RC3 actually does look like it performs better than the RC2. So Surefire really did it, gave us a flowthrough can with better performance in flash mitigation than the RC2. The mad lads. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:40:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DVCNick]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_Blaster: I find this both interesting & curious, considering that the mount threads on the FH are exposed to the "elements", & don't reside behind any kind of taper. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-fecqh2764q/images/stencil/100x100/products/870/739/SF3P-762-1-2-28-BK-isoL__34104.1616780970.jpg Those are "labyrinth seals"... just circular grooves, not threads. The regular 3p and 4p have them; everything else does not. They reduce gas blowback to the rear past them. Just to drive home that conditions, cameras, ammo, everything matters... I've shot my mini2 in a dark but somewhat moonlit night very recently on a 14.5 with a closed tine. To my eye it flashed less than almost anything in the videos. I'd say 1 to 1.5" pencil jet, observed standing to the side with a buddy shooting it. Their mini2 in the video appeared way more flashy than mine. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:53:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: Those are "labyrinth seals"... just circular grooves, not threads. The regular 3p and 4p have them; everything else does not. They reduce gas blowback to the rear past them. Just to drive home that conditions, cameras, ammo, everything matters... I've shot my mini2 in a dark but somewhat moonlit night very recently on a 14.5 with a closed tine. To my eye it flashed less than almost anything in the videos. I'd say 1 to 1.5" pencil jet, observed standing to the side with a buddy shooting it. Their mini2 in the video appeared way more flashy than mine. The brake also has the labyrinth seals. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:00:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ngc1300: Go to 7:04 in the video for a more "real" lighting condition and not camera enhanced night vision. It did fine with m193 using a 4 prong flash hider. It looks like they don't like the closed tine flash hiders, which you shouldn't be using if you care about suppression anyways. It's making a mountain out of a mole hill. The BTO video shows breaks performing about the same between the rc2 and rc3. It's hard to know what you are looking at. Two videos with different outcomes. People on Reddit who might be end users reporting fireballs like the first video. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:03:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: Those are "labyrinth seals"... just circular grooves, not threads. The regular 3p and 4p have them; everything else does not. They reduce gas blowback to the rear past them. Just to drive home that conditions, cameras, ammo, everything matters... I've shot my mini2 in a dark but somewhat moonlit night very recently on a 14.5 with a closed tine. To my eye it flashed less than almost anything in the videos. I'd say 1 to 1.5" pencil jet, observed standing to the side with a buddy shooting it. Their mini2 in the video appeared way more flashy than mine. Okay. I thought the can itself had to be rotated on & then the lock ring turned in the opposite direction, but I guess that's not necessarily a "thread on" type motion. This can is something to think about, though the value is subjective, even for the legitimate R&D investment that went into it. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:05:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Kudos to Hunter Constantine and Ike/Big Tex for putting out these comparisons
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:20:30 PM EDT
[#41]
You can make something look really flashy if you set your camera up to do so.
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USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:41:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: You can make something look really flashy if you set your camera up to do so. What do you mean? Like to the naked eye it would appear much less but cameras can pick up different wavelengths or something that make the flash that is present more visible? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:45:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: What do you mean? Like to the naked eye it would appear much less but cameras can pick up different wavelengths or something that make the flash that is present more visible? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: You can make something look really flashy if you set your camera up to do so. What do you mean? Like to the naked eye it would appear much less but cameras can pick up different wavelengths or something that make the flash that is present more visible? Cameras can amplify light via night vision settings or even basic modifications to sensor settings to increase the amount of light gathered. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 9:10:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: There seems to be a lot of emphasis on osha air quality and on interactions during training with the suppressors especially at units where enormous amounts of training range time will occur. If the fight was the emphasis, the concerns would be on survivability of the soldier, and then sound and flash would matter more. That’s a bigger deal than people understand…there are a number of common flashbangs that contain lead. Try explaining why it’s bad to sweep the shoot house…because the bangs coat everything in lead dust…after you ran through the bang smoke all day. Lead free bangs are about to be a big deal and likely OSHA requirement. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 9:13:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zerlak: Cameras can amplify light via night vision settings or even basic modifications to sensor settings to increase the amount of light gathered. More wavelengths yes but the easiest trick is longer exposures. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 12:57:59 AM EDT
[#46]
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AK, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 12:40:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC:there are a number of common flashbangs that contain lead. Knowing what we have know for the last hundred years this seems like a massive oversight... |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 1:24:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hoody2shoez: Flash test Still from videohttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/470854/signal-2023-12-14-07-54-23-389_jpg-3058994.JPG Dang that's a flame thrower!! |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 2:42:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Knowing what we have know for the last hundred years this seems like a massive oversight... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Originally Posted By FedDC:there are a number of common flashbangs that contain lead. Knowing what we have know for the last hundred years this seems like a massive oversight... The affected audience is small...how many guys use bangs on a regular basis and indoors? So...guys doing the most intense missions get lead poisoning...but nobody really notices because bangs are rare. Bang smoke is bad for you...shoothouses are nasty and polluted. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 5:49:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: More wavelengths yes but the easiest trick is longer exposures. or plenty of ISO if you've got it available. |
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