I've seen the various threads here on 601 clones and acquired the proper Moeller Green Zinc Phosphate spray paint for the furniture.  My build is an H&R 601 with several small parts being updated for the proper 601 parts.  However, I am conflicted on the furniture to paint for this build.  Do I use the newly manufactured H&R furniture to paint, or do I go with a well-used (but no breaks or cracks), set of vintage furniture that has mottling, scars and "character" for painting?

Shooter’s preference honestly

Is the "mottling" an artifact of aging furniture sets, or was it like that even when it was originally made?

If the latter is true, which AR models and vintage had the mottled black furniture?

Lastly, I am not experienced in painting AR parts...  if I use the worn set, I assume it'll kinda look crappy with a fresh coat of paint on it with battle scars and wear hidden by it...  I assume that would really only be a good option if the rest of the rifle had a battle-worn look to it and I scrub a bit on the used, painted handguards to wear off some of the freshly painted look.

Mottling is mostly the age showing, but it seems like most mottled parts are the earlier black plastic 1964-1967 or 1968-ish in my experience. They continued to develop the composite and the later stuff doesn't really do that from what i have seen.

Someone with more experience in that specific regard may chime in. My interest largely concerns the changes to the internals and externals of the rifle and other stuff like that, not necessarily the materials themselves

I’m in the same boat, I’ll probably just grab a brown set from Brownell’s so it looks halfway authentic if the paint gets scratched later.

I used Brownells brown under mine.

If you're using a black set, whether original or Brownells, you may want to think about doing a coat of brown as a base coat below the green anyway. I have a dark Kona Brown that I used on a test of fakelite AK mags that I think would look decent if it wears through.

Although I did just leave the Brownells brown plastic as my base.

Agreed, earlier furniture (PG + Stocks) seems to show mottling more readily.  If you look at the stickied posts of museum examples most of them have the mottled appearance.  UV exposure has a lot to do with the bleaching of the black dyes in my opinion, I have heavily mottled and NOS examples of grips throughout the complete timeline of A1 pistol grips and stocks, handguards tend to vary by manufacturer.  Some (all of my early examples) have a gloss coating that seems to resist the mottling with the later examples (early 80’s NSN replacements) being dye impregnated with matte finish that you can see “swirling” in the composite.


For 601 furniture use USGI handguards from numerich and make sure the teeth match up since the first run of handguards did that well.  Use a type D stock and remove the plasti-dip type covering on the d ring.  The pistol grip needs to be the early skinny type which are more rare, grind the legacy strap holes at an angle as quite a few had that weird feature.

All the 601 furniture I have handles have been very matte in appearance most of the clone attempts to me seem too glossy.

I am in the middle of a little experiment now. In my free time, I been painting on some furniture for a 601 project. I still got a long ways to go but some things I noticed.

The USGI furniture seems thicker and more solid feeling. I have been painting and baking both type pieces at low temps. The USGI furniture seems to do better for me.

The real 601 furniture had lots of ("fibers" I guess you call them). - https://imgur.com/a/sPDAPSZ

I was going to paint some furniture green but with a lot of the brown showing through. That is what sent me down this rabbit hole. I seen the DIY with wood stain. I tried it. I do not like it. Takes days to dry, it is sticky, and it still wipes off easy with MEK or acetone. I wanted to try it with an enamel. What I got so far. - https://imgur.com/a/8NXeriA

Just a thought. If you are going to be painting it, you have the benefit of using furniture that don't match or look the best. The paint will cover the defects.

IMHO the glass reinforced polymer of the 601 handguards are the same as early no drain hole guards just without the black dyes.  If you break a guard they flake and splinter at the fiber mesh, you can tell they are extremely similar when you examine them.  The natural color of the 601’s would be the very dark brown shown in the APEX pictures, almost a plum AK color like the armalite furniture shown. Most 601 examples that have the mottling are UV damaged;The zinc chromate was not durable so once UV was able to hit those undyed polymers they bleached out quickly I believe.

I believe this is correct.

Also agree that a lot of clones are way too glossy

This one isn't a clone AFAIK, but the furniture appears pretty glossy...

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I don't disagree on the glossy, mine is pretty glossy. But it's supposedly the original paint so I'm not sure what the difference is. Just age and wear that toned down the bright, glossy appearance?

In some ways, I think my OD Tamiya painted stocks might look better to the eye, but the Moellers is theoretically correct.

You have one painted in Tamiya OD green and Moellers correct? Which one is closer in color to these?

You can see his pics of both here:  https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Tamiya-vs-Moeller-Green/123-786155/#top

The 601 on Forgotten Weapons looks really different in different light.  On the start of the video, it's pretty dark in color.  Once he does close-ups, it looks closer to the Moeller Green Zinc.

Like JTB, said, it kind of depends on the light.

I think I'm going to swap out the furniture and see how it looks with the Tamiya on it. I'll try and do pics in the same spot, hopefully with similar lighting. Or do some close ups in my light box with the same lighting.

I'll report back when I do it.

It’s hard to describe, but i stand by my opinion that many clones are too glossy. You kind of have to see it in person.

However, heres a bunch more photos ive posted

Agree 100%


I had the luck of finding two mint 601 stocks ( I might still have pictures of.) the finish is most definitely matte in color it is identical in shine to a mint black colt type d stock.  

With enough handling matte paint/polymer turns shiny through transfer of oils and contact smoothing.  This is what you are seeing, use the correct paint and shoot the rifle.  Its your project at the end of the day, if you want it glossy go for it.

Again, I don't disagree. I'm actually wondering if giving mine a light rub down with a green Scotchbright pad might take some sheen off of them.

Although, I will say on some of those pics in your thread some of them do look pretty glossy to me. Especially those brown bakelite ones.

I think I'm willing to try and dull mine and see what happens. Worst case is I buy another can of Moeller...

And swap out to the Tamiya and see what that looks like.

Okay, took some bronze wool to the Moellers stocks. I think it looks better. Seems to look more glossy in the pics than it did to me in person, but I think it's better than it was at least.

Raining outside so stuffed it in my light box. Some quick pics and some showing the Tamiya (not installed yet). Tamiya has a matte clear coat, but I could probably do the bronze wool t it too if I decided to go with it.

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Looks good op

My understanding is the Moeller Zinc Chromate contains no Zinc Chromate any more since 2011. It is now Zinc Phosphosilicate? Also after 6 decades, the color ingredients may have changed a tad. I think Skilcraft So-Sure is one of the only ones still using Zinc Chromate. MDS says 1-10% Theirs also says "flat" too. They also have one with 10-15% Zinc Chromate per MDS.

I just wonder if the change from Chromate to Phosphate made the color change any or the way it shines?

That's possible I guess. I should ask my nerd chemist buddy.