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Posted: 1/12/2024 3:23:16 PM EDT
Apparently CZ will be releasing the Scorpion Evo 4 at SHOT.
Wonder if it will finally be roller delayed? Hopefully they do away with some of the plastic on everything as well. |
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That explains the discounts on the 3 then. I didn't bite. I'm still hoping for a more modern mp5. lol
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Glock Mags and I am sold.
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Originally Posted By Tyrannosaur: The Scorpion mag is becoming the gold standard for PCC mags why move to glock? View Quote Making the gen 2 mags not compatible with the gen 3 was such a mistake. I agree, amazing mags. I would love a quality scorpion that takes the ol reliable rock solid mags, with a better trigger. |
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Looked around and couldn't find anything on a Evo 4 release. Wouldn't surprise me though.
I would have considered a 3+ micro if they would have made their PDW stock available. |
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Originally Posted By O1gagt: Looked around and couldn't find anything on a Evo 4 release. Wouldn't surprise me though. I would have considered a 3+ micro of they would have made their PDW stock available. View Quote No Scorpion will ever be worth owning to me as long as it’s direct blowback and still has all the plastic everywhere. Until it’s roller delayed and has an aluminum upper, I’m not interested. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Gross. The ugliest thing in the world is a PCC with a Glock mag hanging out of it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By M4-AK: Glock Mags and I am sold. Gross. The ugliest thing in the world is a PCC with a Glock mag hanging out of it. |
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"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
-Upton Sinclair |
Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: No Scorpion will ever be worth owning to me as long as it’s direct blowback and still has all the plastic everywhere. Until it’s roller delayed and has an aluminum upper, I’m not interested. View Quote Why the hate for the polymer receiver? Just curious. The Evo has been fielded for a decade now without issues |
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Originally Posted By Frens: Why the hate for the polymer receiver? Just curious. The Evo has been fielded for a decade now without issues View Quote It feels physically cheap when holding it. Thats all. They’re solid guns. I just will never own one until those two things are addressed. If they never are, no biggie. Other PCC’s have both points covered. I can live without a Scorpion. |
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I don’t think the polymer receiver will go away… it’s like asking Glock to make a metal frame pistol…
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Originally Posted By Frens: I don’t think the polymer receiver will go away… it’s like asking Glock to make a metal frame pistol… View Quote They make other models with aluminum receivers. It’s not that hard to imagine them doing a Scorpion with an aluminum upper. I’m sure the lower will stay polymer forever. |
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Making the last version incompatible with existing mags was one of the worst and dumbest things they could have ever done. By default, they killed the last variant by that stupid decision.
I mean, honestly, making it look more like an mp5 with the embossed edges and grooves and stuff was stupid enough and nothing more than just HK envy. I've been clamoring and asking for caliber conversions (other than 9mm) since it was introduced. I'm still hopeful in 45 and 10 mil. That would be the tits. |
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Hope it's a delayed action that uses original evo3 s1 mags. I'd be a buyer.
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Originally Posted By VTD: Hope it's a delayed action that uses original evo3 s1 mags. I'd be a buyer. View Quote I mean at this point it feel it has to be. The number one reason I see people not want to own a Scorpion is that it's not delayed. The second reason is they don't want the polymer upper. |
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Originally Posted By Frens: Why the hate for the polymer receiver? Just curious. The Evo has been fielded for a decade now without issues View Quote The very few Scorpions I've seen with an OOB event and the resulting broken upper is what I didn't like about an all plastic upper. I sold mine and went to metal receiver PCC's -- there are many metal receiver PCCs from which to choose. I know OOB is rare, but it seems like metal uppers handle adverse events like that without being destroyed. That makes me feel better about shooting them. That said, I think it unlikely in the extreme that any future gen of Scorpion would have a metal upper, but if they would, I'd get one again. |
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Beware the Liberal. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.
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CZ should just take the Bren 2 and shrink things down for 9mm. Be an instant winner. Cheaper alternative than an APC9, but with that Czech magic.
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Tag
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By Wespe: What PCC do they currently make with an aluminum receiver? View Quote ...who said it had to be a PCC? ![]() I said they make models already. Nothing about a PCC already with one. View Quote Since you’re not answering my question I’ll have to assume you’re talking the Bren series rifles. You do understand that those were designed with metal receivers to begin with and not plastic right? I’m also guessing you’re not a manufacturing engineer or designer since you don’t understand how much cost and work it takes to design a new receiver and then manufacture it and bring it to the market. So yeah, it is in fact kind of hard to imagine them redesigning, programming, retooling, etc. to change a gun that has a good record of reliability as well as durability. Unless you have enough influence to convince them to do all the above because polymer doesn’t feel good to you, you’re living in a pipe dream. |
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Originally Posted By Wespe: Since you’re not answering my question I’ll have to assume you’re talking the Bren series rifles. You do understand that those were designed with metal receivers to begin with and not plastic right? I’m also guessing you’re not a manufacturing engineer or designer since you don’t understand how much cost and work it takes to design a new receiver and then manufacture it and bring it to the market. So yeah, it is in fact kind of hard to imagine them redesigning, programming, retooling, etc. to change a gun that has a good record of reliability as well as durability. Unless you have enough influence to convince them to do all the above because polymer doesn’t feel good to you, you’re living in a pipe dream. View Quote Mmmm, nah, not too hard to imagine. |
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Originally Posted By kwb377: In your imagination, anything is possible. In reality? Not so much. https://media.giphy.com/media/OwBBZQDUeDRfy/giphy.gif A piston-driven, rotating bolt 9mm is not going to a "cheaper" alternative. The Scorpion already is a "scaled down" Bren...except with an operating system and materials commensurate with the 9mm chambering. The level of "I hope they/they should use heavier, more expensive materials and a more complicated operating system on the Evo4" in this thread is confusing... https://media1.tenor.com/images/75fcc32747bc2ee1a4b2c04cdb295576/tenor.gif?itemid=4730407 View Quote Nah, you’re really the only one confused. Smaller outfits can make PCC’s with aluminum uppers for well under $1k, but you don’t think CZ could do it (if they actually wanted to)? A company the size of CZ with the engineers and manufacturing capabilities they have at their disposal could absolutely do everything everyone in this thread is asking, and do it for sub $1,500 - a price point that people would absolutely understand and go for given the obvious positives and improvements of a roller delayed action and aluminum upper. Stop pretending you’re the only person in the thread who has a clue. You’re just coming off as a pompous dumbass. PS: I’d bet that the upper could be made from an extrusion, which would exponentially reduce both material cost and machine time. But I’m sure you already thought of that being the expert in the thread and all. |
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Originally Posted By kwb377: A piston-driven, rotating bolt 9mm is not going to a "cheaper" alternative. The Scorpion already is a "scaled down" Bren...except with an operating system and materials commensurate with the 9mm chambering. The level of "I hope they/they should use heavier, more expensive materials and a more complicated operating system on the Evo4" in this thread is confusing... https://media1.tenor.com/images/75fcc32747bc2ee1a4b2c04cdb295576/tenor.gif?itemid=4730407 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By kwb377: Originally Posted By tranzformer: CZ should just take the Bren 2 and shrink things down for 9mm. Be an instant winner. Cheaper alternative than an APC9, but with that Czech magic. A piston-driven, rotating bolt 9mm is not going to a "cheaper" alternative. The Scorpion already is a "scaled down" Bren...except with an operating system and materials commensurate with the 9mm chambering. The level of "I hope they/they should use heavier, more expensive materials and a more complicated operating system on the Evo4" in this thread is confusing... https://media1.tenor.com/images/75fcc32747bc2ee1a4b2c04cdb295576/tenor.gif?itemid=4730407 Cheaper version than B&T. Read my post again. Not talking about being cheaper than current Scorpion. I would pay more to get a gun that was designed with some sort of delay in the system and that used an aluminum upper instead of polymer. CZ could definitely make something that would be cheaper than a GHM9 and yet be competitive with it on performance and specs. |
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Originally Posted By tranzformer: Cheaper version than B&T. Read my post again. Not talking about being cheaper than current Scorpion. View Quote He really can’t wrap his mind around not trying to compare it in every way to the current Scorpion. The changes in this thread would make the Evo 4 a true evolution of the gun. It doesn’t need to look the exact same or cost a similar amount to the current Evo. Hard concept for him to grasp. |
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B&T APC223: $3500 MSRP
CZ Bren 2 5.56 carbine: $2000 MSRP B&T Mk2 pistol: $1555 MSRP CZ P-01: $650 MSRP B&T APC9: $2500 MSRP B&T GHM9: $1700 MSRP CZ Scorpion Evo 4:???? MSRP The above comparisons aren't perfect, but they are the best I could think of in terms of products that both companies offer that are similar in design and market segment. Overall B&T is more expensive brand. Labor costs and cost of running a business are higher in Switzerland than in Czech Republic. If CZ wanted to, there is no reason that they couldn't come up with a new Scorpion design that was competitive with the B&T offerings but at a cheaper price point, say sub $1500 MSRP. That is again if CZ wants to do so. |
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Extruded aluminum upper, roller delay, 9mm, cheap... sounds like you guys are wanting CZ to make the Stribog A3 and call it the Scorpion Evo 4.
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Originally Posted By CJofFL: Extruded aluminum upper, roller delay, 9mm, cheap... sounds like you guys are wanting CZ to make the Stribog A3 and call it the Scorpion Evo 4. View Quote I like how you’re pretending like the A3 isn’t a phenomenal gun when you put its mag issues aside, but..hey, whatever you say. With a lower that takes Scorpion mags, there's not a PCC under $2k I'd take over the A3. Edit: I can think of a few north of $2k that I still wouldn't take as well. A $1,500 Scorpion with an aluminum upper and delayed action would be a very, very easy price point for CZ to hit. And it would be incredibly well received by the market. Period. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I like how you’re pretending like the A3 isn’t a phenomenal gun when you put its mag issues aside, but..hey, whatever you say. With a lower that takes Scorpion mags, there's not a PCC under $2k I'd take over the A3. Edit: I can think of a few north of $2k that I still wouldn't take as well. A $1,500 Scorpion with an aluminum upper and delayed action would be a very, very easy price point for CZ to hit. And it would be incredibly well received by the market. Period. View Quote The GHM9 is still a better option at or below the A3 price point. My biggest knocks from owing a scorpion were always the trigger, the weight (and how cheap it felt at that weight), the bitch of a muzzle device to remove, and it's performance suppresed. |
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Originally Posted By WJP556: The GHM9 is still a better option at or below the A3 price point. My biggest knocks from owing a scorpion were always the trigger, the weight (and how cheap it felt at that weight), the bitch of a muzzle device to remove, and it's performance suppresed. View Quote Not from what I've seen it isn't. I see as many complaints about the GHM9 as the Stribog. The difference is the Stribog complaints are a simple fix: a lower that takes Scorpion mags. After that, they run 100% and shoot as soft as an MP5...how do you think the GHM 9 is better at that point? lol If it's direct blowback, it's doesn't shoot as nice as the A3, period. Not even B&T with their hydraulic buffer system is as soft. Edit: And where the fk are GHM9's under $800? Because you can get A3's for under $800 all day long. Under $1,000 still with a new lower. |
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Woops
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Originally Posted By CJofFL: Extruded aluminum upper, roller delay, 9mm, cheap... sounds like you guys are wanting CZ to make the Stribog A3 and call it the Scorpion Evo 4. View Quote Sure, I think a lot of CZ fans would be happy with that as well as others looking for a new 9mm PCC in the $1000-1500 range and wanting something nicer than what current Scorpion offers but cheaper price point than a B&T type. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I like how you’re pretending like the A3 isn’t a phenomenal gun when you put its mag issues aside, but..hey, whatever you say. View Quote I have no idea how you’re getting any that from my post. As I insinuated, very succinctly, you and others are seemingly describing the Stribog A3 in your hopes for the Evo 4. Nothing more. Reread it and consider switching to decaf. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Nah, you’re really the only one confused. Smaller outfits can make PCC’s with aluminum uppers for well under $1k, but you don’t think CZ could do it (if they actually wanted to)? A company the size of CZ with the engineers and manufacturing capabilities they have at their disposal could absolutely do everything everyone in this thread is asking, and do it for sub $1,500 - a price point that people would absolutely understand and go for given the obvious positives and improvements of a roller delayed action and aluminum upper. Stop pretending you’re the only person in the thread who has a clue. You’re just coming off as a pompous dumbass. PS: I’d bet that the upper could be made from an extrusion, which would exponentially reduce both material cost and machine time. But I’m sure you already thought of that being the expert in the thread and all. View Quote Speaking of pompous dumbassery, are you trying to be edgy in a preteen sort of way, or are you just really an actual preteen? Since you're so cocksure that a gas operated rotating bolt 9mm is a realistic design option, enlighten us all by revealing as to why no firearm manufacturer on Earth has ever bothered to make one. And while you're on a roll, further enlighten us all as to how, "A company the size of CZ with the engineers and manufacturing capabilities they have at their disposal could absolutely do everything everyone in this thread is asking, and do it for sub $1,500." Don't spare any details, either. I work in manufacturing, so I'd genuinely like to hear the solution to this price point. I'm talking material acquisition, R&D design, test verification, & certification, production volume cost projection...all of it. All the various costs rolled into developing this "sure thing/no problem" idea. Tell me in detail how an overly complicated 9mm pistol/SBR/carbine can be produced & sold in the volume necessary for economic scaling to effect your asserted pricing outcome. Surely, you do know better than anyone else. Tell us all about it. Can't wait. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Not from what I've seen it isn't. I see as many complaints about the GHM9 as the Stribog. The difference is the Stribog complaints are a simple fix: a lower that takes Scorpion mags. After that, they run 100% and shoot as soft as an MP5...how do you think the GHM 9 is better at that point? lol If it's direct blowback, it's doesn't shoot as nice as the A3, period. Not even B&T with their hydraulic buffer system is as soft. Edit: And where the fk are GHM9's under $800? Because you can get A3's for under $800 all day long. Under $1,000 still with a new lower. View Quote I got my GHM9 for about $900, and yeah the recoil is much nicer than the A3. |
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Originally Posted By WJP556: I got my GHM9 for about $900, and yeah the recoil is much nicer than the A3. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By WJP556: Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Not from what I've seen it isn't. I see as many complaints about the GHM9 as the Stribog. The difference is the Stribog complaints are a simple fix: a lower that takes Scorpion mags. After that, they run 100% and shoot as soft as an MP5...how do you think the GHM 9 is better at that point? lol If it's direct blowback, it's doesn't shoot as nice as the A3, period. Not even B&T with their hydraulic buffer system is as soft. Edit: And where the fk are GHM9's under $800? Because you can get A3's for under $800 all day long. Under $1,000 still with a new lower. I got my GHM9 for about $900, and yeah the recoil is much nicer than the A3. I disagree. The A3 shoots significantly softer and nicer than the GHM9. The A1 and GHM9 shoot similarly when I shot them back to back. But the A3 is definitely an improvement over both of them. |
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: Speaking of pompous dumbassery, are you trying to be edgy in a preteen sort of way, or are you just really an actual preteen? Since you're so cocksure that a gas operated rotating bolt 9mm is a realistic design option, enlighten us all by revealing as to why no firearm manufacturer on Earth has ever bothered to make one. And while you're on a roll, further enlighten us all as to how, "A company the size of CZ with the engineers and manufacturing capabilities they have at their disposal could absolutely do everything everyone in this thread is asking, and do it for sub $1,500." Don't spare any details, either. I work in manufacturing, so I'd genuinely like to hear the solution to this price point. I'm talking material acquisition, R&D design, test verification, & certification, production volume cost projection...all of it. All the various costs rolled into developing this "sure thing/no problem" idea. Tell me in detail how an overly complicated 9mm pistol/SBR/carbine can be produced & sold in the volume necessary for economic scaling to effect your asserted pricing outcome. Surely, you do know better than anyone else. Tell us all about it. Can't wait. View Quote Ah, more dumbassery. You wanna show me where I said this? Nowhere in this entire thread have I ever mentioned your crackpot “gas operated rotating bolt”. Are you high? Are you senile? Do you routinely just make shit up like you did in your rambling post there? |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Ah, more dumbassery. You wanna show me where I said this? Nowhere in this entire thread have I ever mentioned your crackpot “gas operated rotating bolt”. Are you high? Are you senile? Do you routinely just make shit up like you did in your rambling post there? View Quote Do you even understand what you read or say/post? You just bashed a post calling a gas operated 9mm impractical. Guess why that was a stupid argument for you to assert? |
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: Do you even understand what you read or say/post? You just bashed a post calling a gas operated 9mm impractical. Guess why that was a stupid argument for you to assert? View Quote Because you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about in this thread? I bashed a post about you claiming I said shit I never said. When are you going to show me my post when I ever mentioned anything about a rotating bolt? |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Because you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about in this thread? I bashed a post about you claiming I said shit I never said. When are you going to show me my post when I ever mentioned anything about a rotating bolt? View Quote You responded that CZ has the resources to do it. The kicker is, why would they want to? |
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: You responded that CZ has the resources to do it. The kicker is, why would they want to? View Quote I never, ever specifically said I wanted what he keeps saying. Since my VERY FIRST post, I said ROLLER DELAYED. I do see where I replied to one of his rants where he’s talking about rotating bolt. My mistake. I overlooked it. Not sure why he replied to ANY of my posts ranting about a rotating bolt that I never brought up, but whatever. I never talked about that in this thread, but I could see where me responding to him about it was confusing. That’s my bad. |
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Originally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I never, ever specifically said I wanted what he keeps saying. Since my VERY FIRST post, I said ROLLER DELAYED. I do see where I replied to one of his rants where he’s talking about rotating bolt. My mistake. I overlooked it. Not sure why he replied to ANY of my posts ranting about a rotating bolt that I never brought up, but whatever. I never talked about that in this thread, but I could see where me responding to him about it was confusing. That’s my bad. View Quote Baaah! I see now. Delayed roller locking was part of the conversation. No, I think this is my screw up, not yours. Sorry mang. ![]() I'm not sure if CZ will go for that, if for no other reason than the associated cost. I guess they could, but is the market demand there to justify it? Guess we'll know sooner than later. |
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Nice to see some kum ba ya back up in here
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My Scorps are my favorite guns to shoot. Both original models.
The different mags for the last offering was pants on head retarded. |
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So far not seeing any info on a Scorpion Evo 4, just a bunch of bickering and wishes. Has any info been released from CZ talking about new Scorpion model?
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: Baaah! I see now. Delayed roller locking was part of the conversation. No, I think this is my screw up, not yours. Sorry mang. ![]() I'm not sure if CZ will go for that, if for no other reason than the associated cost. I guess they could, but is the market demand there to justify it? Guess we'll know sooner than later. View Quote Peace be with you, sir. |
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Originally Posted By O1gagt: So far not seeing any info on a Scorpion Evo 4, just a bunch of bickering and wishes. Has any info been released from CZ talking about new Scorpion model? View Quote It was leaked by mistake in a podcast I watched. If it doesn’t come to fruition at SHOT, treat it as an Evo 4 wish thread, I dunno. |
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