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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2023 8:53:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nwalker77]
I want to find the engineer that came up with this and choke him until his eyes pop out!
I tried boiling water for 15ish minutes and a torch with MAP gas. Nothing....... I'm going to let it soke overnight and then mess with it some more when I get home from work. |
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Posted: 8/24/2023 10:04:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Are you using a barrel vise and an appropriate wrench (either 3 prong flash hider tool or a non-adjustable wrench on the flats)?
Oh yeah, and then do the above. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2023 10:40:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes
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Posted: 8/25/2023 4:03:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Which caliber/barrel length?
Most people are reporting success with a sharp rap to the tool used to remove the device. I guess the rap is breaking the crystalline structure of the rocksett and allowing the device to come off. I didn't have any luck with that method. Good luck bro. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 7:10:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: nwalker77]
[#4]
16" 5.56
This seriously blows my mind that they would make it this difficult to get off. I put the muzzle in a pot of water before I went to bed last night. I'll pull it out when I get home from work and give it another try. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:04:32 AM EDT
[#5]
My 16" 5.56 LT. Since I didn't know what was under the threads, I soaked boiling water, left for an hour, put a large adjustable wrench, whacked it with a rubber mallet and it popped off on the first hit. No evidence of thread locker or rockset, threads were clean.
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Posted: 8/25/2023 10:34:59 AM EDT
[#6]
It might pop off easily or it might destroy the barrel. Every Sig barrel is different.
Sig will remove it for $57 including shipping both ways. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 11:24:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By topgunpilot20: It might pop off easily or it might destroy the barrel. Every Sig barrel is different. Sig will remove it for $57 including shipping both ways. Thanks.... This is good to know and a fairly reasonable price. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 2:32:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kent: Thanks.... This is good to know and a fairly reasonable price. Not on a rifle that you just paid 2.5k for. Nobody should have to pay any amount for their engineering screw up. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 2:37:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nwalker77: Not on a rifle that you just paid 2.5k for. Nobody should have to pay any amount for their engineering screw up. Agreed, but here we are. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:09:06 PM EDT
[#10]
I've had two now that have had to go to my local gunsmith to remove.
I soaked them over night. Nothing Boiled them. Nothing Soaked for 3 days. Nothing Torched them. Nothing Thankfully my gunsmith has a table mounted barrel clamp that allows him to give a wrench a very solid wack to pop it off. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:21:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: Thankfully my gunsmith has a table mounted barrel clamp that allows him to give a wrench a very solid wack to pop it off. Using a proper barrel vise that clamps the barrel as close to the threads as possible make a big difference when removing a difficult muzzle device. More of your force is applied to actually removing the device. |
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Posted: 8/25/2023 3:36:58 PM EDT
[#12]
my first rattler I couldn't get it to save my life. Heat, water, nothing. Even slamming the wrench with a mallet didn't do anything. Gunsmith popped it off (free) as I was there for laser engraving.
Next MXC I said fuck it and went right to the vice/mallet. Soft whack was all it took. 3rd rattler upper, I was trying to get it on there and found it finger tight. Problem solved? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 7:04:15 PM EDT
[#13]
I finally got it off. It took a 20V DeWalt impact set to the highest setting to break it loose. There is nothing on the threads. They must have used a 20ft cheater to get it this tight.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 8:10:49 PM EDT
[#14]
That 25 degree taper is doing it’s job.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2023 9:45:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BoSanders: That 25 degree taper is doing it’s job. I'm no engineer. Is the taper what caused all of this? |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2023 12:33:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nwalker77: I'm no engineer. Is the taper what caused all of this? Yah, increasing the surface area the two parts touch increases the amount of force needed to break that bond. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2023 11:17:23 AM EDT
[#17]
My experience, FWIW... I bought my gun around January of this year (I think).
Removing the device from my 16" 5.56 barrel. Soaked in hot water for 25 minutes. Tried clamping the barrel in a set of wheeler barrel blocks (rubberized surface)... NO chance, not even close. To be fair it would be the same story with any rocksett device. Clamped the gas block, and a 2ft breaker bar took it off. I would say it required force equal or greater than any Rocksett device I've taken off. Used a couple layers of t-shirt to pad the jaws, and only have very minimal handling marks on the side of the gas block. Those will clean up fine with some permablue if desired. Going to be putting an SFCT on it very soon. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2023 6:51:01 PM EDT
[#18]
I was lucky and it only took a 3/4 socket and a little elbow grease. Gun was manufactured in September fyi maybe if we’re keeping dates to see if Sig has made an adjustment to their process.
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Posted: 10/25/2023 9:16:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Bought a silencerco can mount and gunsmith swapped it on for free. Was only back there few minutes so assuming it wasn’t too bad to do
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 4:48:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: metroplex]
[#20]
I just removed the factory flash hider from my Spear LT barrel. It was a new upper ordered straight from SIG.
They used a lot of Rocksett or thread locker and torque on the flash hider. I used a MAPP torch, 1/2" crowfoot wrench (13/16") with the longest breaker bar I had and then a copper pipe as a cheater bar. The amount of torque I had to apply to break it loose was a lot more than I've ever had to do for any of my Rocksett muzzle devices with 25-30 ft-lb of initial torque. If I had to guess they probably put 40 ft-lb or more plus all the Rocksett they used coupled with the 25 degree taper. Then again I don't think they used Rocksett because the stuff they used started to boil when I ended up having to heat the flash hider with a MAPP torch. And whatever they used cleaned up real fast with brake cleaner, a steel brush, etc... Rocksett is like liquid glass which is easy to clean but not this easy to clean, and shouldn't boil when heated so gently. I used a set of padded barrel vise jaw clamps like I have done for the past 20 years. This was by far one of the hardest to remove. Even my factory FN SCAR muzzle devices removed quite easily and I have done it to 3 factory barrel assemblies over the years. My Rocksett devices that I torqued to 25-30 ft-lb are anywhere close to being this hard to remove. On top of it, the factory flash hider leaves the taper part clean of any finish way high, so when I used my Rearden flash hider with 25* taper, it doesn't cover this shiny ring on the barrel. I am going to try the SIG taper ring even though my muzzle device has the 25 degree taper machined in.  |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 10:14:44 AM EDT
[#21]
I agree, I don't think it is Rocksett, or at least not the classic Rocksett that I use. Rocksett is white and gritty for me once I break them free. This was clear and gummy.
If it helps anyone, I ran out of threads with a Surefire closed tine long before reaching the 25 degree adapter ring from Sig. I ended up using an SF3P which has more threads for some reason. However, in my case with the 16" 5.56 barrel, and an already relatively front heavy gun, I just don't think I'm going to shoot this barrel suppressed much, if at all. So I think I'm just going to go back to the Sig flash hider and use the SF3P on something else. The shooting performance with the RC2 seems just fine, certainly on par with a 16" AR, but in the event that I want to suppress a 16" rifle (rare anyways) I just know I'll always be reaching for an AR due to the weight. I'm planning to add an 11.5" barrel at some point, but probably not right away unless there is a killer black Friday sale or something. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 12:34:44 PM EDT
[#22]
I think most people are seriously underestimating the effectiveness of that 25 degree taper.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 9:18:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: metroplex]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: I agree, I don't think it is Rocksett, or at least not the classic Rocksett that I use. Rocksett is white and gritty for me once I break them free. This was clear and gummy. If it helps anyone, I ran out of threads with a Surefire closed tine long before reaching the 25 degree adapter ring from Sig. I ended up using an SF3P which has more threads for some reason. However, in my case with the 16" 5.56 barrel, and an already relatively front heavy gun, I just don't think I'm going to shoot this barrel suppressed much, if at all. So I think I'm just going to go back to the Sig flash hider and use the SF3P on something else. The shooting performance with the RC2 seems just fine, certainly on par with a 16" AR, but in the event that I want to suppress a 16" rifle (rare anyways) I just know I'll always be reaching for an AR due to the weight. I'm planning to add an 11.5" barrel at some point, but probably not right away unless there is a killer black Friday sale or something. I ran into that problem with my Rearden FHD that was designed with the 25* SIG taper. Rearden told me it's fine and that's how they run their Spear LT in the shop. It just looks janky as fuck with that shiny marking on the barrel and before someone says I'm not using a tapered flash hider, I'll provide photos of the SIG taper Rearden FHD and the regular 90* flat shoulder Rearden FHD as comparisons. I am not bashing Rearden. I just have well over 12 of their muzzle devices and over 12 of their Atlas mounts. They're short and they're lightweight. I just need to keep checking their tightness when shooting. Rearden with 25* taper fully seated  Rearden with 90* shoulder/flat fully seated  The one thing that remains to be tried is using the SIG taper adapter/ring. I am not 100% sure it will cover that shiny part of the barrel. That's something you could try with your Surefire adapter - to use the SIG taper ring adapter that allows for the use of flat shoulder muzzle devices. I am contemplating putting the factory flash hider back on if that taper ring doesn't pan out. I like shooting suppressed but I have other 5.56 SBRs that I can shoot suppressed. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2023 11:56:29 PM EDT
[#24]
The taper adapter is mandatory with the surefire muzzle devices since they have a 90 degree shoulder... It does cover the visible taper on the barrel.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 7:01:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: The taper adapter is mandatory with the surefire muzzle devices since they have a 90 degree shoulder... It does cover the visible taper on the barrel. What about muzzle devices that have a 25* taper, like the Rearden FHD I showed above? So you're saying the SIG taper ring adapter will cover all of the visible taper of the barrel (the shiny part in my photo)? It sounds like a SIG taper ring adapter is necessary regardless of what muzzle device you are using unless it is a SIG OE flash hider designed for the clutch-lok. Unless you want that shiny taper on the barrel visible all the time. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 8:36:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DVCNick]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metroplex: What about muzzle devices that have a 25* taper, like the Rearden FHD I showed above? So you're saying the SIG taper ring adapter will cover all of the visible taper of the barrel (the shiny part in my photo)? It sounds like a SIG taper ring adapter is necessary regardless of what muzzle device you are using unless it is a SIG OE flash hider designed for the clutch-lok. Unless you want that shiny taper on the barrel visible all the time. A bit of speculation mode here since I can only see it from one angle: It appears your muzzle device with the 25 degree taper built in doesn't have nearly as long a tapered section as the stock Sig device and therefore leaves a lot of the barrel taper exposed. It probably works as is, as long as it is torque/rocksett correctly, but it also looks like it has a large 90 degree shoulder section that is still exposed on the back of the muzzle device. If that is the case, it may work either with, or without, the 25 degree taper adapter from Sig that gives a 90 degree shoulder. (may work with a 25 degree or a 90 degree shoulder). Maybe you can call Rearden and ask if it would work with the adapter as well. Aesthetically: I agree that just doesn't "look" good. The taper adapter does cover ~90% of the tapered part of the barrel on mine, and works as designed assuming you have a muzzle device with long enough threads to reach it (the SFCT I originally tried did not). My stock Sig device didn't leave nearly as much bare metal looking ring where yours is... mine is more of a gloss black from the contact. Perma-blue might help with that, but even if it did, aesthetically I might still not be super happy with all that exposed barrel taper... kind of a dumb reason not to like it, but it is what it is. If you want to shoot me a PM with your email, I can send a picture of my SF3P installed with the 90 degree adapter ring before I take it back apart. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DVCNick: A bit of speculation mode here since I can only see it from one angle: It appears your muzzle device with the 25 degree taper built in doesn't have nearly as long a tapered section as the stock Sig device and therefore leaves a lot of the barrel taper exposed. It probably works as is, as long as it is torque/rocksett correctly, but it also looks like it has a large 90 degree shoulder section that is still exposed on the back of the muzzle device. If that is the case, it may work either with, or without, the 25 degree taper adapter from Sig that gives a 90 degree shoulder. (may work with a 25 degree or a 90 degree shoulder). Maybe you can call Rearden and ask if it would work with the adapter as well. Aesthetically: I agree that just doesn't "look" good. The taper adapter does cover ~90% of the tapered part of the barrel on mine, and works as designed assuming you have a muzzle device with long enough threads to reach it (the SFCT I originally tried did not). My stock Sig device didn't leave nearly as much bare metal looking ring where yours is... mine is more of a gloss black from the contact. Perma-blue might help with that, but even if it did, aesthetically I might still not be super happy with all that exposed barrel taper... kind of a dumb reason not to like it, but it is what it is. If you want to shoot me a PM with your email, I can send a picture of my SF3P installed with the 90 degree adapter ring before I take it back apart. So the stock Clutch-Lok SIG flash hider's taper is extended behind the threaded portion. It's pretty custom designed from where I am standing. I don't see many muzzle devices that do that, short of some European face-mount style stuff. I put the SIG official tapered adapter ring on and like I was thinking all along, it will not cover that shiny part of the barrel. There must be something different about the barrel profile on the 3rd Gen Spear LT or perhaps its just the 11" barrel with a thicker profile behind the muzzle. Here's what it looks like with the taper ring. Still janky. And yes I contacted Rearden and they basically said it will work but theirs has the shiny part exposed too. It's not too bad but I've never had luck with steel blackener matching the manganese phosphate or nitride black oxide coatings. Sometimes it causes a weird reaction turning it brown. So it looks like for the 3rd Gen Spear LT 11" that unless you want this shiny tapered part exposed, just keep the stock Clutch-Lok Flash Hider on there until someone makes a specific muzzle device.  |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 8:05:39 PM EDT
[#28]
DeadAir makes keymo muzzle devices for the Sig taper.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/2/2023 10:49:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlueShirtGuy: DeadAir makes keymo muzzle devices for the Sig taper. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2023 11:28:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DVCNick]
[#30]
Interesting, I'm not sure what the difference is, but my SF3P w/sig adapter ring covers up more of the contact ring from the original Sig muzzle device. Not all, but more than pictured there.
My only guess is that if that is still the Rearden tapered muzzle device in the picture, it might still be stopping on the taper instead of the 90 degree shoulder and not pushing the taper adapter ring all the way back. I believe mine moved back some as I torqued down the muzzle device to spec. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2023 6:02:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Couldn't find a logical answer to this, so I used Caswell blackener on that shiny part, slapped the SIG taper adapter on and went through like 4 of the Rearden muzzle devices with a Geissele alignment rod to find they were all slightly off-center. I grabbed my Wolfpack Armory Nite Howler (which was always off-center with my other platforms) and surprisingly it was dead-center. So I used Rocksett, and torqued to 25 ft-lb. Worst case scenario is I don't like it and it should come off far easier than the factory SIG Flash Hider.
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Posted: 11/7/2023 2:31:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By nwalker77: I want to find the engineer that came up with this and choke him until his eyes pop out! I tried boiling water for 15ish minutes and a torch with MAP gas. Nothing....... I'm going to let it soke overnight and then mess with it some more when I get home from work. I've taken three off. 1. Boil in water submerging the muzzle device only for about 30-45 minutes. 2. Using my NOMAR Vice Jaws, which are super sturdy, I locked the barrel assembly at the gas block. 3. Using a breaker bar and my FCD Muzzie Tool I was able to easily torque them off. If its not releasing with about 50lb of your own torque force, boil longer and try again. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/7/2023 4:55:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joethe33: I've taken three off. 1. Boil in water submerging the muzzle device only for about 30-45 minutes. 2. Using my NOMAR Vice Jaws, which are super sturdy, I locked the barrel assembly at the gas block. 3. Using a breaker bar and my FCD Muzzie Tool I was able to easily torque them off. If its not releasing with about 50lb of your own torque force, boil longer and try again. Did you remove them from 16" or 11.5" or shorter barrels? Just asking because it helps when the barrel is straight/flatter profile. The 11.5" main barrel portion is tapered so the barrel vise jaws can only grip part of it. Also helps to have a long breaker bar and/or cheater bar. |
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Posted: 12/5/2023 2:56:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Just pulled my muzzle device, used a standard box end wrench and wrapped the barrel with some thick cardboard to protect from the vise jaws. It came loose with a pop, and didn't appear to have any rocksett. Looks like they used the same assembly fluid on the flash hider that was on the receiver end of the barrel.
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Posted: 12/6/2023 12:03:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Mine had rockset oozing out of the threads on my LT, my SPEAR Heavy was minimal.
I soaked them overnight and used a 19mm deep socket and a dewalt 1/2” Impact to zip them off after heating with MAP gas. The came off pretty easy with this method. Minimal marking on the flash hider left behind. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2023 12:42:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jerad: Mine had rockset oozing out of the threads on my LT, my SPEAR Heavy was minimal. I soaked them overnight and used a 19mm deep socket and a dewalt 1/2” Impact to zip them off after heating with MAP gas. The came off pretty easy with this method. Minimal marking on the flash hider left behind. I did this as well, only used an 18mm impact socket. If you aren't reusing the muzzle device for anything a 19mm will work but will mar the device some from it being a little loose. I didn't soak mine or anything. Held the gun in my left hand, impact with my right and it came right off. My build date was 09/2023 so I am unaware if Sig started to use less rocksett by then. |
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Posted: 12/6/2023 3:31:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GZ1: I did this as well, only used an 18mm impact socket. If you aren't reusing the muzzle device for anything a 19mm will work but will mar the device some from it being a little loose. I didn't soak mine or anything. Held the gun in my left hand, impact with my right and it came right off. My build date was 09/2023 so I am unaware if Sig started to use less rocksett by then. It is very possible it was an 18mm… it was a while ago. |
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Posted: 12/6/2023 3:40:16 PM EDT
[#38]
I boiled mine for 45 minutes then chucked it up in a vise with a rag wrapped around the gas block to protect it. I used a large crescent wrench on the hex and started applying torque. Put a pretty good amount of torque on it but nothing unreasonable. Heard a pop and it screwed right off.
Maybe they didn't load mine up with a bunch rocksett, IDK. 
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Posted: 12/8/2023 11:21:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion10182011: I boiled mine for 45 minutes then chucked it up in a vise with a rag wrapped around the gas block to protect it. I used a large crescent wrench on the hex and started applying torque. Put a pretty good amount of torque on it but nothing unreasonable. Heard a pop and it screwed right off. Maybe they didn't load mine up with a bunch rocksett, IDK. Had the exact same experience, though mine did have something bleeding out of the back of the muzzle device. Boiled for 30-45 min and torqued the hell out of it with an 18mm socket and a 36” breaker bar. |
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