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Posted: 2/21/2024 12:55:31 PM EDT
Can someone shine some light on the general prices of 1018 and 4140? My steel guy is saying is 4140 is about double the cost of 1018 on average, which seems strange to me.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2024 5:30:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Depends on a few things. 1018 is plain vanilla low carbon steel that is usually only available in cold finish flats and rounds, it can only be surface hardened by introducing more carbon. 4140 contains sufficient carbon to be hardened directly, it also contains molybdenum and chromium. The additional cost is due to the alloying elements, it isn't quite double the cost on common sizes but close enough to say your supplier is in the ballpark.
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Posted: 2/21/2024 10:48:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MethaneMover]
[#2]
Last time I priced equal bars the 4140 was maybe 15% higher than the 1018.
Are you comparing the same finish and country of origin? Chinese CD1018 vs USA TGP4140 could be quite the difference. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 2/29/2024 2:57:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Obviously depending on HF or cold rolled but I pay maybe 20% more for 41xx over 1018.
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ID, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2024 1:22:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By bandanabandit1: Can someone shine some light on the general prices of 1018 and 4140? My steel guy is saying is 4140 is about double the cost of 1018 on average, which seems strange to me. Call more than one steel supplier and see what others are charging in your area. . |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:00:29 PM EDT
[#5]
1018 is a mild steel and 4140 can be flame hardened get cherry red and quench in oil in figure 8 in the oil. The Mil uses a bit of 4140.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:29:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MethaneMover]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SnoGoRider: The Mil uses a bit of 4140. I'd say that 4140ph is the gold standard of steels. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:12:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Online metalsonline.com has been my go to. Pretty competitive across the board. Speedy shipping. Instant quote on their site.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 2:23:26 PM EDT
[#8]
4140 is about 20% more than 1018 for the same material size around here.
4140ph is "real" steel. Used for lots of machinery parts and is in may ways more common than bubble gun grade 1018. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:31:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: 4140 is about 20% more than 1018 for the same material size around here. 4140ph is "real" steel. Used for lots of machinery parts and is in may ways more common than bubble gun grade 1018. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:00:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: 4140 is about 20% more than 1018 for the same material size around here. 4140ph is "real" steel. Used for lots of machinery parts and is in may ways more common than bubble gun grade 1018. This is good to know. I looked around and found prices that are about that much % different in price. Glad I asked here too |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:27:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: Common enough that my local steelyard stocks it up to 24" in diameter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: Originally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: 4140 is about 20% more than 1018 for the same material size around here. 4140ph is "real" steel. Used for lots of machinery parts and is in may ways more common than bubble gun grade 1018. There's no way that a piece of 4140 that large has been hardened. You have to quench 4140 from about 1570F to like 650F in about 5 seconds to achieve full hardness. |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 10:55:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MethaneMover]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brownbomber: There's no way that a piece of 4140 that large has been hardened. You have to quench 4140 from about 1570F to like 650F in about 5 seconds to achieve full hardness. The post I quoted mentioned 4140 and 4140ph, I can see where one might think that. Edit- I will say, they do have stuff striped as 4140ph that is much larger than I thought was practical. These guys offer 4140ph up to 32"  Attached File Attached File |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: I don't know what condition it was in, the ends weren't striped. I just asked the dude what that giant bastard was and he said 4140. The post I quoted mentioned 4140 and 4140ph, I can see where one might think that. Edit- I will say, they do have stuff striped as 4140ph that is much larger than I thought was practical. These guys offer 4140ph up to 32" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/145430/1000007730_jpg-3216141.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/145430/1000007729_jpg-3216142.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: Originally Posted By brownbomber: There's no way that a piece of 4140 that large has been hardened. You have to quench 4140 from about 1570F to like 650F in about 5 seconds to achieve full hardness. The post I quoted mentioned 4140 and 4140ph, I can see where one might think that. Edit- I will say, they do have stuff striped as 4140ph that is much larger than I thought was practical. These guys offer 4140ph up to 32" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/145430/1000007730_jpg-3216141.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/145430/1000007729_jpg-3216142.JPG Huh. That's interesting. I stand by earlier assertion that heat-treating (not merely subjecting it to a heat-treatment, but actually attaining a predominantly martensitic microstructure) is completely impossible for those gargantuan rounds. They are probably finer-grained (and stronger) than they otherwise would be, but are certainly not "heat-treated" in the normal sense. I think the largest round section of 4140 that can be through-hardened is only like 1.5" |
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Posted: 5/17/2024 2:36:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brownbomber: Huh. That's interesting. I stand by earlier assertion that heat-treating (not merely subjecting it to a heat-treatment, but actually attaining a predominantly martensitic microstructure) is completely impossible for those gargantuan rounds. They are probably finer-grained (and stronger) than they otherwise would be, but are certainly not "heat-treated" in the normal sense. I think the largest round section of 4140 that can be through-hardened is only like 1.5" |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2024 4:13:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: I think you're on to something. The following page has the HT detail and it only goes up to 9.5". And let's be clear, its only Rc 30-32ish. Not like they're taken to maximum tensile or anything. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MethaneMover: Originally Posted By brownbomber: Huh. That's interesting. I stand by earlier assertion that heat-treating (not merely subjecting it to a heat-treatment, but actually attaining a predominantly martensitic microstructure) is completely impossible for those gargantuan rounds. They are probably finer-grained (and stronger) than they otherwise would be, but are certainly not "heat-treated" in the normal sense. I think the largest round section of 4140 that can be through-hardened is only like 1.5" 32ish corresponds to like a 1200F temper - for an article that formed nearly 100% martensite upon quenching. It's a temperature that's well above the range of temper embrittlement. If you go to McMaster-Carr's website, you'll notice that the stated hardness of their 4140ph gradually descends as bar thickness increases, because the percentage of martensite formed upon quenching decreases. I would expect a giant-ass 9.5" round bar to form about 0% martensite, unless it was induction-hardened. |
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