User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:16:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JMD: I can understand the sentiment to a certain extent having dealt with suicidal people for alot of my life both personally and professional He is not wrong in some cases. But people commit suicide for a variety of reasons and it is more complex than people realize. Mental health issues are a part of it. There are a few traits I have seen in probably 75% of suicide or attempted suicidal persons though: 1. Poor life decisions or choices. They make bad decisions 2. Weak willed. Hate to say but most are weak willed persons. Not just because they committed suicide or tried to commit suicide but in their life as a whole. Ties in with 1. Not as black and white issue as many think though. If you think about it.. From the smallest vertebrates to our powerhouses, the brain has evolved to want to survive. If it arrives at a different conclusion, something is overriding that basic evolutionary wiring so that something, likely chemical, is not working correctly. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:33:38 AM EDT
[#2]
There's an actual name for the phenomenon, they're called "cluster suicides". More common in tight knit or small groups/communities where lots of people know each other. The first suicide elicits a wave of attention and sympathy, and susceptible people in a rough place see that as a way to be remembered and appreciated.
We did a lot of awareness training in the AF, and were always told to bump up the vigilance and counseling for Airmen that seemed suddenly calm and less stressed after a squadron suicide, which unhappily weren't all that rare. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:39:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:45:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Osprey61: There's an actual name for the phenomenon, they're called "cluster suicides". More common in tight knit or small groups/communities where lots of people know each other. The first suicide elicits a wave of attention and sympathy, and susceptible people in a rough place see that as a way to be remembered and appreciated. We did a lot of awareness training in the AF, and were always told to bump up the vigilance and counseling for Airmen that seemed suddenly calm and less stressed after a squadron suicide, which unhappily weren't all that rare. The sad thing that people who follow the first one don't realize either is that attention and sympathy wanes rapidly with each subsequent one within a short time frame. Humans are prone to be easily bored or annoyed by things that continually happen around them, and suicides within a community are no different. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:46:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Surprisingly, many suicides turn out to have been on antidepressants! Their doctor didn't properly titrate the medication. Many years ago, suicide was determined to be due to maladjusted chemical levels in the brain; this wasn't a scientific study, but they went about "adjusting" the chemicals anyway. One statistic I'm concerned about is the number of suicides due to self-defense situations; evidently the first year after a SD shooting is hazardous. Anyone care to elaborate? Correlation doesn't equal causation. Someone on antidepressants is also someone likely to talk themselves into ending it. Or shooting up the public, etc. I can easily see someone with nobody to live for convincing themselves that life isnt worth the hassle. It is sad. We lost a scout to suicide at age 21 and really shook us all up. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:47:46 AM EDT
[#6]
There are going to be a lot more in the years to come.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 11:48:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 12:05:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 12:11:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wolfpack: My best friend did it in 2003. After going through it in my head over the last 20 years I think it was because he was gay or not interested in women. He gave plenty of clues but I never put 2 and 2 together while he was alive. He did it when he was 33, all of us were getting married, having kids. His mom had mentioned to him she couldn't wait for his grandkids....3 months after that comment he did it (he didn't talk to her after she said that). His mom who I was very close with asked me in 2020 what I think it was and I told her I didn't want to tell her...she kept insisting so I told her. She never talked to me again. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 12:24:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 12:48:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wolfpack: My best friend did it in 2003. After going through it in my head over the last 20 years I think it was because he was gay or not interested in women. He gave plenty of clues but I never put 2 and 2 together while he was alive. He did it when he was 33, all of us were getting married, having kids. His mom had mentioned to him she couldn't wait for his grandkids....3 months after that comment he did it (he didn't talk to her after she said that). His mom who I was very close with asked me in 2020 what I think it was and I told her I didn't want to tell her...she kept insisting so I told her. She never talked to me again. I had a similar thing happen with my best friend from high school. I got married and took a job 90 miles away after college. We talked on the phone and saw each other 3-4 times per year. I moved closer and he stopped returning my calls. I think my parents were out of state when it happened, but I called his parents after I heard. They never spoke to me again. |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:01:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:33:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dcat: That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:34:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:43:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TROB]
[#15]
There are suicides happening all the time. you just don’t realize it.
Ive never seen one of ours mentioned in the local news. No one wants to know about it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:47:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boomer]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, bad habits and decisions start catching up, a divorce really wrecks a lot of guys, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is.  Just some examples that I have observed and a few I have experienced. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:50:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is. Based on how my jet setting aunts and uncles are living their 50's, it seems pretty fun. They are more busy now than they ever were raising kids and working. My dad has insisted several times that grandkids are way better than regular kids....implying we were a pain in his ass, but the next set of kids made it worth it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 1:53:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? Just a handful, huh? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:00:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boomer]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Based on how my jet setting aunts and uncles are living their 50's, it seems pretty fun. They are more busy now than they ever were raising kids and working. My dad has insisted several times that grandkids are way better than regular kids....implying we were a pain in his ass, but the next set of kids made it worth it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is. Based on how my jet setting aunts and uncles are living their 50's, it seems pretty fun. They are more busy now than they ever were raising kids and working. My dad has insisted several times that grandkids are way better than regular kids....implying we were a pain in his ass, but the next set of kids made it worth it. Well everyone isn’t your aunt and uncle. We’re discussing a broad demographic group with an unquestionable fact attached to it. Also, appearances are just that. You never really know what underlying feelings someone might be harboring or experiencing. And yes, grandkids are way easier and more enjoyable than your actual kids. Because you get to have mostly the good times with them and then send them back to their parents. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:02:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Just a handful, huh? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? Just a handful, huh? I'll justify it. I would say about 30% of my graduating class is either self employed or a partner in a business of some type (and I'm including farming in this group). Another 25% are successful in their field. The remaining 45% are losers, or at least haven't had much drive in their lives. So yes. They likely make up the smallest group, with the losers likely being the biggest group, and the entrepreneurs landing in the middle while still making up a fairly big portion compared to the total number of self employed people in the population. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:05:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Well everyone isn’t your aunt and uncle. We’re discussing a broad demographic group with an unquestionable fact attached to it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is. Based on how my jet setting aunts and uncles are living their 50's, it seems pretty fun. They are more busy now than they ever were raising kids and working. My dad has insisted several times that grandkids are way better than regular kids....implying we were a pain in his ass, but the next set of kids made it worth it. Well everyone isn’t your aunt and uncle. We’re discussing a broad demographic group with an unquestionable fact attached to it. His claim was wrong to begin with. Suicide numbers are highest between ages 25-44. https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:07:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boomer]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: I'll justify it. I would say about 30% of my graduating class is either self employed or a partner in a business of some type (and I'm including farming in this group). Another 25% are successful in their field. The remaining 45% are losers, or at least haven't had much drive in their lives. So yes. They likely make up the smallest group, with the losers likely being the biggest group, and the entrepreneurs landing in the middle while still making up a fairly big portion compared to the total number of self employed people in the population. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? Just a handful, huh? I'll justify it. I would say about 30% of my graduating class is either self employed or a partner in a business of some type (and I'm including farming in this group). Another 25% are successful in their field. The remaining 45% are losers, or at least haven't had much drive in their lives. So yes. They likely make up the smallest group, with the losers likely being the biggest group, and the entrepreneurs landing in the middle while still making up a fairly big portion compared to the total number of self employed people in the population. Now I am curious how you define “successful in their field”. Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:14:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: His claim was wrong to begin with. Suicide numbers are highest between ages 25-44. https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By dcat: Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: Largest group tends to be white males 45-60 years old. That's a tough time. It's when most men have their first serious health issue. The kids are in high school (emotionally-charged daughters and a son that drove like Ricky Bobby in my case) and then go to college ($$). You learn the beautiful terms perimenopause and menopause and that "no" means "get away from me you MFer". I think there's two camps, and I hope I land in the second one. The first are guys like you described, who are experiencing big stresses stacking up after years. It's hard, and I've been watching my dad deal with it for years now. The second are guys that are "Life begins after 40" types, who can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel and are set up for things to finally star getting a little easier. I feel like I'm in the second group as I inch towards 40, but we'll see. Life is certainly "easier" now than it was for us in our 20's and most of our 30's. Money worries still exist but more more of an inconvenience than a life sentence now. Luckily my wife is a good wife, and I'm sure that plays a big part. I've seen lots of guys my age that have been with the same woman for nearly 20 years now and they just hate each other, but won't leave each other. Can't be a great way to live. You also haven’t experienced life in your 50s. Essentially, you don’t know what you don’t know. Financially, mid-50s life is the easiest it has even been for us. But that isn’t life’s only concern. It’s also a time for many when the kids are grown and gone, they are on the downhill side of a career, a sense of purpose is diminished if not lost, not much seems to really matter anymore, after years of dedication to family and career you pop your head up only to see that the world has changed radically and not in a good way, health issues start appearing, life has basically peaked and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Like having a kid, there’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t really appreciate until you’ve personally experienced it. Oh yeah, and you have a bunch of 40 and younger know it alls telling you how life is. Based on how my jet setting aunts and uncles are living their 50's, it seems pretty fun. They are more busy now than they ever were raising kids and working. My dad has insisted several times that grandkids are way better than regular kids....implying we were a pain in his ass, but the next set of kids made it worth it. Well everyone isn’t your aunt and uncle. We’re discussing a broad demographic group with an unquestionable fact attached to it. His claim was wrong to begin with. Suicide numbers are highest between ages 25-44. https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html That’s a very recent trend. Over a longer period, the highest rates have been among those 75 and older followed by those aged 45-65.  Attached FileIt’s still a very legitimate thing. |
|
|
|
OK, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:17:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Now I am curious how you define “successful in their field”. Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? If you’re not a multi millionaire with a playboy bunny wife and a mansion, you should just kill yourself. Loser. (I know he didn’t say that but it’s what I thought while reading it) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:20:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sitdwnandhngon]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Now I am curious how you define “successful in their field”. Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Boomer: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. My 20 year class reunion is this year and it's very interesting to kind of look around at my peers and see who is where. Lots of business owners and self employed people doing well, a handful of very successful people, and a big group of wage slaves who were never likely to make it from the get go. The saying rings true though. If you haven't at least established yourself and begun your trade by 30, then become proficient at it by 40, there's a solid chance that by 45 and beyond you won't ever amount to much. I still have to stop and remind myself about where I was 10 years ago in business, and how much growth I've seen, and had an encounter with a jealous person about it last summer. Back handed comments about how it must be nice to be doing so well......motherfucker you took the easy path, don't get mad at me for finally reaping a small amount of benefit from busting my ass for over a decade and taking some substantial risk on a few projects. So in your world everyone is either a successful entrepreneur or a loser wage slave who will never amount to anything. Nice. Can’t imagine how attitudes like that would ever contribute to depression in other people. Did you miss the "handful of successful people" part of that list? Just a handful, huh? I'll justify it. I would say about 30% of my graduating class is either self employed or a partner in a business of some type (and I'm including farming in this group). Another 25% are successful in their field. The remaining 45% are losers, or at least haven't had much drive in their lives. So yes. They likely make up the smallest group, with the losers likely being the biggest group, and the entrepreneurs landing in the middle while still making up a fairly big portion compared to the total number of self employed people in the population. Now I am curious how you define “successful in their field”. Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? The basics. Quality of life, total income, growth within their field, and satisfaction in their career. I'm sure you can easily delineate a successful person and an unsuccessful person by simply observing them for a bit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:31:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boomer: Now I am curious how you define "successful in their field". Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? Unless you move away and get a career/job you can bring back and WFH/Travel-Hybrid, it can be hard to find anything but self employment or menial hourly work in a small town. I suspect out of the total pool of people who grew up there, there are more generally middle class people, but they likely moved away and live in the burbs somewhere. I grew up in a rural area, and most of the people who stayed behind were either doing so to inherit/start a family business or because they didn't have any other options or motivation to do something more. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:34:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanati: I'm pretty sure he lives in a rural area, so there is likely some selection bias at play. Unless you move away and get a career/job you can bring back and WFH/Travel-Hybrid, it can be hard to find anything but self employment or menial hourly work in a small town. I suspect out of the total pool of people who grew up there, there are more generally middle class people, but they likely moved away and live in the burbs somewhere. I grew up in a rural area, and most of the people who stayed behind were either doing so to inherit/start a family business or because they didn't have any other options or motivation to do something more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanati: Originally Posted By Boomer: Now I am curious how you define "successful in their field". Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? Unless you move away and get a career/job you can bring back and WFH/Travel-Hybrid, it can be hard to find anything but self employment or menial hourly work in a small town. I suspect out of the total pool of people who grew up there, there are more generally middle class people, but they likely moved away and live in the burbs somewhere. I grew up in a rural area, and most of the people who stayed behind were either doing so to inherit/start a family business or because they didn't have any other options or motivation to do something more. That's about right. Even moving just an hour in any direction opens up a lot more career opportunity. I moved away for two years then came back. Felt weird about it for awhile, but it's working out. |
|
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 2:54:36 PM EDT
[#29]
80% of the time a male un-alives himself, he has had contact with divorce or family court.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 3:13:06 PM EDT
[#30]
My mid 40's BIL did it back in January. Lot's of contributing factors I think. He always seemed lost, never able to stabilize. Made many bad decisions, including drugs. Left behind two great boys, now without a Dad or Mom (another contributing factor). He had his chances though to pull out of the nosedive. 6 years in the Army with honorable discharge (no combat). Seems he could have built off of that either by staying in or leveraging the experience.
My observations as someone a little more emotionally detached from the situation, as I never really got to know him: -The fallout from someone doing this has strange and random tentacles. It affects things that you never would have expected. Can't explain it any better than that, just random in how it impacts people and life moving forward. -He had at least a couple of failed attempts. I falsely assumed he didn't have the "where with all" to actually do it. Looking back, I don't know why there wasn't a push to get him help mentally. That hindsight is a bitch. And boy was I wrong in my assessment. -Survival guilt, and continually asking "why?" is a thing. I think those left behind can benefit from counseling in working through grief. But, that seems to be a difficult next step to take for those you know could benefit, and least in my situation. It's tragic. I've seen way too many good men leave this earth too soon, just from life's attrition (accidents, physical health, etc.). But seeing/knowing that someone is at that point of taking their own life is a whole other level of tragic. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 3:16:26 PM EDT
[#31]
 "The Old Game" - Chuck Barris, CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND Ending |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 3:27:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Lets see you apply that to a family member who makes the attempt. Your attitude will change. My mom has attempted suicide nine times I'm aware of. I don't see anything wrong with his logic or opinion. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 3:28:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanati: I'm pretty sure he lives in a rural area, so there is likely some selection bias at play. Unless you move away and get a career/job you can bring back and WFH/Travel-Hybrid, it can be hard to find anything but self employment or menial hourly work in a small town. I suspect out of the total pool of people who grew up there, there are more generally middle class people, but they likely moved away and live in the burbs somewhere. I grew up in a rural area, and most of the people who stayed behind were either doing so to inherit/start a family business or because they didn't have any other options or motivation to do something more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kanati: Originally Posted By Boomer: Now I am curious how you define "successful in their field". Job title? Level of income? How far they moved up a company ladder? Career achievements? Sense of satisfaction with their job and whatever lifestyle it affords? Unless you move away and get a career/job you can bring back and WFH/Travel-Hybrid, it can be hard to find anything but self employment or menial hourly work in a small town. I suspect out of the total pool of people who grew up there, there are more generally middle class people, but they likely moved away and live in the burbs somewhere. I grew up in a rural area, and most of the people who stayed behind were either doing so to inherit/start a family business or because they didn't have any other options or motivation to do something more. I understand that and suspected it a bit. But we’re also speaking in generalities and he didn’t qualify those comments. |
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 3:32:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vikingsouthpaw: 80% of the time a male un-alives himself, he has had contact with divorce or family court. not really, suicide rates are skyrocketing with single guys. I wonder just how much worse does this country have to get until GD finally admits everything is terrible now. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:17:47 PM EDT
[#35]
I've been saying for several years now, we're going to start seeing an epidemic of suicides among the younger generation.
I hope I'm wrong. |
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:22:00 PM EDT
[#36]
87% chance there was drugs involved. 50/50 chance gub or dr's were involved.
2 ex-con brothers that I worked with, good workers, suicided on the same day. I'd heard them say during a work conversation one day that they would never go back to prison. Best I can remember was they both used pistols after a police chase for something, probably drugs. An old close neighbor farmer hung himself in a barn after a brief health bout way back years ago. In his eulogy I leaned one of the most profound things in my life which was: "Never judge an Indian brave until you've walked a mile in his moccasins". |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:29:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I've know a few that did it due to health issues. Either their health was
circling the drain fast or they had chronic pain issues that would not go away. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:33:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lou_Daks: I've known a few. Permanent solution to a temporary problem.  God I hate that phrase and it is so far off base its just sad |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:33:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 10mmillie: Same. Fucking selfish cowards. Nothing like working the suicide of a guy you went to the police academy with who did it with his best friend’s duty weapon in his driveway for everyone to see. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:37:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoStockBikes: Please clarify. Are you suggesting that people seek out help and go on antidepressants without any suicidal thoughts, then suicidal thoughts start after they start taking meds? If you see a fat person eating a salad, do you assume the salad is making them fat, or do you think it would be a reasonable conclusion that they eating a salad because they are fat? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoStockBikes: Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Surprisingly, many suicides turn out to have been on antidepressants! Their doctor didn't properly titrate the medication. Many years ago, suicide was determined to be due to maladjusted chemical levels in the brain; this wasn't a scientific study, but they went about "adjusting" the chemicals anyway. Please clarify. Are you suggesting that people seek out help and go on antidepressants without any suicidal thoughts, then suicidal thoughts start after they start taking meds? If you see a fat person eating a salad, do you assume the salad is making them fat, or do you think it would be a reasonable conclusion that they eating a salad because they are fat? The side effects of many antidepressants are often worse than the depression, and stopping them is even worse |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:44:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By ACEB36TC: "If you don't make by the time you're 45 you won't make it". Proenneke started a new life in back country AK at the age of 50. He had already made it though. Honorable discharge from the military, highly skilled at multiple trades, and saved enough money to retire in his 50's. Lots of losers hit their 40's and realize that they haven't done a damn thing with their lives, likely never will, and get real depressed real fast about it. Agreed. Not a great example. Just pointing out that you're not done unless you quit. But that sounds dumb to someone who's talked themselves into life not being worth it. Maybe it isnt for some people. Not too hard to see that, if we are so willing to declare an unborn baby's life wont be worth living and kill it. Its not "talking yourself into it" when your brain is constantly telling you that you're worthless/unwanted/unloved/a burden/etc and you have no control over it. You believe you're doing the world a favor and it doesn't take much convincing |
|
|
|
NS, CAN
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 4:52:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Uncompahgre: Plenty of problems are permanent. For the sake of those left behind, please reconsider the use of this trite phase that is entirely unhelpful and often incorrect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 5:14:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TXBBQGuy: God I hate that phrase and it is so far off base its just sad I feel like this is identical to the abortion debate. Stop arguing over the fringe when his statement holds perfectly true for 98%+ of cases. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 5:24:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: I feel like this is identical to the abortion debate. Stop arguing over the fringe when his statement holds perfectly true for 98%+ of cases. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy: God I hate that phrase and it is so far off base its just sad I feel like this is identical to the abortion debate. Stop arguing over the fringe when his statement holds perfectly true for 98%+ of cases. So you believe that less than 2% of suicides are people with legitimate, permanent mental health issues? |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 5:29:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hooligan223: I can see why. I'm in that group and I've had to face some hard realities lately. Some days are a real struggle. Yep. especially when you start to fear health issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 6:29:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TXBBQGuy: So you believe that less than 2% of suicides are people with legitimate, permanent mental health issues? I can think of basically zero mental health issues that are clinically permanent and untreatable that have high enough functioning brain power to contemplate and make a rational, informed decision that suicide is the only reasonable option. So yeah. |
|
|
|
MO, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 6:32:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K5FAL: If you’re not a multi millionaire with a playboy bunny wife and a mansion, you should just kill yourself. Loser. (I know he didn’t say that but it’s what I thought while reading it) That's a recuring theme on the Gun Forum. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 6:45:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: I can think of basically zero mental health issues that are clinically permanent and untreatable that have high enough functioning brain power to contemplate and make a rational, informed decision that suicide is the only reasonable option. So yeah. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Originally Posted By TXBBQGuy: So you believe that less than 2% of suicides are people with legitimate, permanent mental health issues? I can think of basically zero mental health issues that are clinically permanent and untreatable that have high enough functioning brain power to contemplate and make a rational, informed decision that suicide is the only reasonable option. So yeah. Rational and informed kind of go out the window when you are deep in depression or near debilitating anxiety, or both. And yes, "treatments" are available, but as discussed earlier in the thread some of those treatments will actually cause more issues. Combine that with (especially in men) the stigma around admitting you need help (just look at the comments here in any mental health thread) and now the increasing potential of the government becoming involved in a negative way if you even mention possibly needing help, and people end up just saying "screw it" because, in their mind, there is no other way out and they're doing everyone a favor, thats the logic and rationale. If you haven't lived it, its really hard to explain or understand |
|
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 7:10:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FloydGeneBallin: Yep. especially when you start to fear health issues. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FloydGeneBallin: Originally Posted By hooligan223: I can see why. I'm in that group and I've had to face some hard realities lately. Some days are a real struggle. Yep. especially when you start to fear health issues. Absolutely. The things you can't control can screw you the hardest. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2024 7:58:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RRA_223: We need more God and Family - and less stuff or social media. It's a shit show out there and I worry for our kids. Amen brother! |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
