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Posted: 5/12/2024 4:54:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTX: Hey, I don't make rash decisions. I'm admittedly still a bit intimidated by the idea of owning such a scary weapon of war. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTX: Originally Posted By AbleArcher: Originally Posted By RTX: This is a very valuable thread for a person like me who came to this site to explore the idea of buying a military style assault rifle of my own. Did you make a decision in the 8 years of exploration? Hey, I don't make rash decisions. I'm admittedly still a bit intimidated by the idea of owning such a scary weapon of war. That's fair. I wish you the best of luck deciphering the wisdom of the sages of ARFCOM. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:33:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HDSledge]
[#2]
I have a couple uppers with rds but I grew up with irons and have a couple uppers with only irons. A peep clears things up for my imperfect vision due to some optical effect I can't recall the details of and I get better results than with the rds. Ingrained after years of nothing but irons I suppose.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:34:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: southerncross]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: @southerncross What kind of attachment do you use for the fixed carry handle? My carry handle rifle is the only one I don’t have an aim point or acog on. I’m not quite sure how to attach one. @1245xx It's a Leupold carry handle mount. I wanna say it was about $40 shipped from Brownells. Other people carry them as well. After a conversation with @dalyman72 at an HTF 2 Gun match we both built similar carry handle carbines. Both of us are running dots with this mount and happy with them. Leupold Carry Handle Mount |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:38:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PacNW5: For condensate on the lens exterior, have you thought about using Cat Crap? We're from the Washington area and I used it all the time since you could be moving from a dry to humid environment very quickly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PacNW5: Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff: I'm not talking about larping for a few hours. I'm talking about living in the mountains in northern Maine through the winter, hiking, cutting trees, hauling firewood, breaking trail, etc etc. Keeping an optic on all the time isn't worth the hassle for me. Half the time the lens is full of ice or mud or sawdust and even irons have issues with shit getting in them, it's just they are more likely to stay usable. I'm not interested in worrying if my lens covers are on or if I need to clean my lenses again. I want a rifle I can sling up and go in and out of the house or truck or ATV and not have to worry if the lens is going to frost over with condensate or get covered in crap when it's -15 and snow and ice is blowing off of every tree. For condensate on the lens exterior, have you thought about using Cat Crap? We're from the Washington area and I used it all the time since you could be moving from a dry to humid environment very quickly. I haven't tried it, but its not a bad idea, thanks for the tip! The wet season is a totally different set of challenges with all the mud and melt water. The last two years the amount of rain we have had has been incredible. Our road has washed out three times and the flooding in the surrounding areas has been of historic proportions. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:48:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Even with my eyes I can make iron sights work. Of course dots, or LPVO are better than irons, but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone who has my ability to work iron sights shooting at me.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:20:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RustedAce: Eww no. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:24:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Glck1911]
[#7]
Irons are fun and sure they are plenty effective.
They make shooting at things in the dark difficult, so optics are superior. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:44:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HDSledge]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Genin: Even with my eyes I can make iron sights work. Of course dots, or LPVO are better than irons, but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone who has my ability to work iron sights shooting at me. Amen to that. I could nail a squirrel head shot at 25 yards when I was 10 years old. With a Benjamin pellet gun no less. Reminds me I need to get a set of low profile irons for an upper that came in yesterday. These are on another upper, may get another set. The needle post makes a perfect spot for a fluorescent fly tying bead. That thing lights up even under low light, makes it easy to aquire through the rear peep. 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:55:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I run an Iron sighted patrol rifle during the summer months. The Texas gulf coast humidity is brutal. Optics tend to fog up immediately upon exiting a patrol vehicle with AC. The iron sights don't fog up. Rest of the time I run optics. Gonna be interesting to see how my glock with holosun fares as well. Anti fog stuff does not really seem to help.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cwm1150: I run an Iron sighted patrol rifle during the summer months. The Texas gulf coast humidity is brutal. Optics tend to fog up immediately upon exiting a patrol vehicle with AC. The iron sights don't fog up. Rest of the time I run optics. Gonna be interesting to see how my glock with holosun fares as well. Anti fog stuff does not really seem to help. I can see that as a problem for OWB going in and out of A/C. That's not a problem with concealed, though. Body heat and moisture prevents it. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:07:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: Irons are fun and sure they are plenty effective. They make shooting at things in the dark difficult, so optics are superior. That's what the light is for. Or if it's bad guys the PVS-14 and IR laser. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:12:30 PM EDT
[#12]
I really need to get some more optical sights. Every time I want to get a quality one, some other milsurp or old gun comes along. I am reasonably proficient with irons, but I am aware it's a huge detriment and in low light would be very ineffective.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Good optics are about so much more than hitting targets at the range.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:20:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: Good optics are about so much more than hitting targets at the range. Yeah, but most of the people here just buy shit like they own a museum. It's not like they're actually shooting them. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:20:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: Good optics are about so much more than hitting targets at the range. Looking good is good optics at the range. 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:21:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: Looking good is good optics at the range.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:22:22 PM EDT
[#17]
My primary carbine has an ACOG - but I feel well armed with irons. If your eyes are GTG, irons are GTG. Especially 20 inch goodness:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:30:07 PM EDT
[#18]
in general no... but special purposes like truck gun where battery life might be an issue ..
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:32:46 PM EDT
[#19]
If my old eyes hadn't betrayed me years ago, I would probably have at least one iron-sighted AR.
Sadly, decent optics are not given away. |
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SOM
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:34:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By AbleArcher: Is anyone still running just iron sights as their primary sighting system on a modern AR in 2024? 😎 |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:35:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx: Pretty much this, but I'd be an optic guy at this point either way. Too many advantages at any distance to ignore. You might be surprised at the abuse a quality optic will tolerate. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx: Originally Posted By ED_P: My older eyes do much better with optics vs iron sights these days, so I'm forced into the optics camp. Pretty much this, but I'd be an optic guy at this point either way. Too many advantages at any distance to ignore. Originally Posted By Lungbuster: My truck/SxS AR is irons. An optic wouldn’t survive the abuse. You might be surprised at the abuse a quality optic will tolerate. More than a relatively fragile FSP. I’ve seen more bent front sight posts than broken Aimpoints. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:47:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1245xx: @southerncross What kind of attachment do you use for the fixed carry handle? My carry handle rifle is the only one I don't have an aim point or acog on. I'm not quite sure how to attach one. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:57:00 PM EDT
[#23]
My fastest rifle is a 20” A1 ish AR with TFO front post and dim tritium rear peep. Just six pounds with pellet rifle recoil. Have an AK with T1 on a scalar, AUG wit an ACOG and piggyback RMR. Like the Hi Vis fiber optic front post as well.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:05:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karankawa: My fastest rifle is a 20” A1 ish AR with TFO front post and dim tritium rear peep. Just six pounds with pellet rifle recoil. Have an AK with T1 on a scalar, AUG wit an ACOG and piggyback RMR. Like the Hi Vis fiber optic front post as well. You can put in work with a rifle like that. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#25]
I have an aimpoint comp and a cheap PA LPVO and prefer the carry handle sights, but i have never tried something really nice.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:53:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Except for NH yeah. You actually did learn that Maine is the second snowiest state. I wouldn't say the hardest winters though. Just the snowiest. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000000819_jpg-3212571.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By AbleArcher: I am learning that Maine winters are much harder than anywhere else in this thread. Except for NH yeah. You actually did learn that Maine is the second snowiest state. I wouldn't say the hardest winters though. Just the snowiest. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000000819_jpg-3212571.JPG The problem with that is Michigan's Lower Peninsula is lowering the average significantly. The UP gets absolutely dumped on, and averages much more snowfall. Marquette averaged 141 inches of snowfall per year, and was the fifth snowiest city in the United States large enough to be reported. https://glisa.umich.edu/media/files/MarquetteMI_Climatology.pdf I've never had an issue with a scope or a red dot while hunting, and I've killed plenty of deer and coyote in the middle of a blizzard with an Aimpoint Pro-equipped AR. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:56:09 PM EDT
[#27]
I have 2 AR's with stock open sights.
a Colt HBAR a Bushmaster carry handle carbine with a XS tritium post. I shoot the hell out of both. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:01:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Just out of curiosity, where are you shooting piles of pigs in driving snow? Peep sights pose their own issues in snow as well. They are easier to clear though. anytime we get snow, its an automatic day off for hunting. waterfowl, deer or pigs. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:02:12 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm old school enough to keep zeroed BUIS on my rifles, one or two cant be used without removing the scope but it is what it is. I like irons sometimes but even in the army irons were just something you qualified with in basic then it was m68s, acogs and m145s for the mgs. If you're good with irons you'd still be better with optics.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:03:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5thLegion: My primary carbine has an ACOG - but I feel well armed with irons. If your eyes are GTG, irons are GTG. Especially 20 inch goodness: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/112468/IMG_3298_jpeg-3212884.JPG |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#31]
All the ARs have optics. About half have backup optics for the main optic. Shamefully some still have BUIS.
The vast majority of the pistols have optics. Shit most of the .22lr's have optics. Even the AK has an optic. The only things without optics are the really old designs where optics are a pain to add. I shoot them occasionally to remind myself how gross iron sights areand how bad people used to have it back in the olden times. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:47:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaskForce: Good optics are about so much more than hitting targets at the range. Maybe if they worked in the cold and the heat. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:48:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Primary AR? No. Backup? No. Backup to a backup? Still no. Backup to the backup to the backup? Yes.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:50:08 PM EDT
[#34]
No. Why when red dots are so reliable and so much better.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:52:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: Primary AR? No. Backup? No. Backup to a backup? Still no. Backup to the backup to the backup? Yes. This is why Ping Ping invented the $120 Sig Romeo 5. Well for that and .22lr. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 8:54:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TOTHEMAX: No. Why when red dots are so reliable and so much better. Red dots replaced BUIS, and added more functionality while doing it. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:00:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Irons with a Blitzkrieg spike work pretty well for close ranges. Like a red dot is better, but I'd say it's the next best thing.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:00:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Red dots replaced BUIS, and added more functionality while doing it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: No. Why when red dots are so reliable and so much better. Red dots replaced BUIS, and added more functionality while doing it. How so? Can you dial elevation on the fly to make longer shots? Unless we're talking an ACSS/BDC/etc. reticle, RDS do not add more functionality; in my opinion. Irons are much more functional over a broader range of engagement, thanks to having the ability to quickly make elevation and windage adjustments. With most RDS, you're using holdovers and Kentucky windage. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:04:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Most of mine have irons. I have one competition AR with a Leupold VX3 1-4 on it, and a DPMS flat top upper sitting in the safe. Glass is fun, but long range irons is a fun challenge.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:11:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Square66: Can’t see like I used to so optics it is. It’s a bummer because I really enjoyed shooting irons. Now it’s just frustrating even though I still give it my best. Even my retro A1 build has an optic now. If you really want a mind screw try out an Armson OEG. Believe it or not they are still being made. I don’t really recommend it as a serious choice today, but it is period correct and what was available back then. They take getting used to, but they're awesome at kissing distance. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 9:19:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AK-12]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad: How so? Can you dial elevation on the fly to make longer shots? Unless we're talking an ACSS/BDC/etc. reticle, RDS do not add more functionality; in my opinion. Irons are much more functional over a broader range of engagement, thanks to having the ability to quickly make elevation and windage adjustments. With most RDS, you're using holdovers and Kentucky windage. TBF most irons don't have that functionality either |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:07:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: TBF most irons don't have that functionality either Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By Muad: How so? Can you dial elevation on the fly to make longer shots? Unless we're talking an ACSS/BDC/etc. reticle, RDS do not add more functionality; in my opinion. Irons are much more functional over a broader range of engagement, thanks to having the ability to quickly make elevation and windage adjustments. With most RDS, you're using holdovers and Kentucky windage. TBF most irons don't have that functionality either Maybe most BUIS that are sold (think cheap Magpuls, etc.). They do offer windage, just not elevation. I personally don't run any Irons/BUIS that that don't have elevation adjustment - save a single set of DD BUIS on an AR pistol - which is not intended for much beyond 50 yards. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:23:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad: How so? Can you dial elevation on the fly to make longer shots? Unless we're talking an ACSS/BDC/etc. reticle, RDS do not add more functionality; in my opinion. Irons are much more functional over a broader range of engagement, thanks to having the ability to quickly make elevation and windage adjustments. With most RDS, you're using holdovers and Kentucky windage. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By AbleArcher: Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX: No. Why when red dots are so reliable and so much better. Red dots replaced BUIS, and added more functionality while doing it. How so? Can you dial elevation on the fly to make longer shots? Unless we're talking an ACSS/BDC/etc. reticle, RDS do not add more functionality; in my opinion. Irons are much more functional over a broader range of engagement, thanks to having the ability to quickly make elevation and windage adjustments. With most RDS, you're using holdovers and Kentucky windage. I didn't realize dialing elevation was something people were doing with back up sights. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 10:24:22 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:02:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AK-12]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad: Maybe most BUIS that are sold (think cheap Magpuls, etc.). They do offer windage, just not elevation. I personally don't run any Irons/BUIS that that don't have elevation adjustment - save a single set of DD BUIS on an AR pistol - which is not intended for much beyond 50 yards. Aside from the Magpul MBUS Pro with the range dial and A2/A2 based rears I'm not aware of any others. My fixed Scalarworks and DD rears don't. ETA: forgot Matech and some KAC |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:04:28 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AK-12: Aside from the Magpul MBUS Pro with the range dial and A2/A2 based rears I'm not aware of any others. My fixed Scalarworks and DD rears don't. I used to dial range with Matech rear sights, but I haven't done it in a long time. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:13:35 AM EDT
[#47]
I just realized I have optics that have back up iron sights, mounted on a rifle with separate back up iron sights.
 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:19:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: I just realized I have optics that have back up iron sights, mounted on a rifle with separate back up iron sights. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/72384/1000000473-3213276.jpg Swap the PEQ-2 for a tan PEQ-15 and this is pretty much what my service rifle looked like in 2018  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:24:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -Ascent-]
[#49]
Nope. I have one Carry handle AR and it still has a red dot on it.
I have back up irons on most guns but I don’t see the use for irons as a primary personally. Lens caps work the best for the snow or heavy rain. Keep the lens’s covered until it’s time to shoot. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2024 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Yes.
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