User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:42:43 AM EDT
Seems the government was busy little bees last week. The change in Highly Compensated Employee level is going to hammer small businesses.
NOTICE: On April 23, 2024, the U.S. Department of Labor (Department) announced a final rule, Defining and Delimiting the Exemptions for Executive, Administrative, Professional, Outside Sales, and Computer Employees, which will take effect on July 1, 2024. The final rule updates and revises the regulations issued under section 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act implementing the exemption from minimum wage and overtime pay requirements for executive, administrative, and professional (EAP) employees. Revisions include increases to the standard salary level and the highly compensated employee total annual compensation threshold, and a mechanism that provides for the timely and efficient updating of these earnings thresholds to reflect current earnings data.  Attached Filehttps://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/overtime/rulemaking |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:46:16 AM EDT
[#1]
I don't understand what this is saying
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:48:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Salaried individuals still don't get overtime
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:50:17 AM EDT
[#3]
Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings".
Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:03:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. I hear it everywhere. I don’t think people understand it’s not a choice. It’s based on criteria as to whether or not you can make some exempt. You don’t just get to decide. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:09:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsudriver: I hear it everywhere. I don’t think people understand it’s not a choice. It’s based on criteria as to whether or not you can make some exempt. You don’t just get to decide. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsudriver: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. I hear it everywhere. I don’t think people understand it’s not a choice. It’s based on criteria as to whether or not you can make some exempt. You don’t just get to decide. I usually keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start a rift, but if it's just me and the employer talking I'll just casually ask what they do about overtime pay. Some of the answers get interesting, and some of them seem to think they are completely exempt and just because they pay their laborers $1500/week all year long that they can work them 60 hours all summer without paying extra. I'm not sure what kind of FSLA posting requirements there are in the shop or office, but the employees would be pissed if they found out, and would likely have a lawsuit they could easily win. I'll never do salary. I just want my guys to know that output comes from input. Put in lots of hours, get a big fat check. I try to encourage OT because it's extra money for them and it means my shit gets done faster. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:10:23 AM EDT
[#6]
So in my line of work as a firefighter, our Captains can make overtime, but our next rank above Captain - Battalion Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, and Assistant Chiefs cannot being admin people. How does this effect them, if any?
Sorry, but I am not an HR lawyer. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:12:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. The government loves to make it illegal to do what they do all the time. They actually specify in federal law that many of the blue-collar, hourly positions within certain Federal agencies are exempt. It's friggin clown shoes. 
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:13:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JGPSTAHL: Salaried individuals still don't get overtime Wrong. Salaried does not mean Exempt. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:13:42 AM EDT
[#9]
It's nice how 3 letter agencies have taken over making law.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:14:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blu3Ridge: So in my line of work as a firefighter, our Captains can make overtime, but our next rank above Captain - Battalion Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, and Assistant Chiefs cannot being admin people. How does this effect them, if any? Sorry, but I am not an HR lawyer. Looks like it just changes the earning threshold for exempt classified employees. So if they are earning under the minimum requirement they will eligible for OT pay. My guess is most companies will simply give raises or start limiting hours. My wife's company used to pay OT to the underwriters so she could get some easy extra money each week by just staying an hour late every day. She's exempt so it was company policy. They took that policy away, and people stopped working late. Not sure how it affected things, but now when she does work late I ask her if she likes working for free and she gets mad at me. Yeah I work wild hours, but I'm also the owner, totally different. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:17:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: The government loves to make it illegal to do what they do all the time. They actually specify in federal law that many of the blue-collar, hourly positions within certain Federal agencies are exempt. It's friggin clown shoes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. The government loves to make it illegal to do what they do all the time. They actually specify in federal law that many of the blue-collar, hourly positions within certain Federal agencies are exempt. It's friggin clown shoes. The laws are weird too. When we do prevailing wage jobs I have to submit a form with the state each time stating that we will be working 10 hour days. If I don't then any hours after 8 during a normal working day are subject to OT regardless of weekly hours. Typically I submit it, and we work Mon-Thurs on the job and then either do a different job that's normal rate or do shop work on Friday. I'll do any Friday or Saturday work on my own on site or I'll hold someone off site one day that week so they can help me on Friday and not be subject to OT pay. OT can kill you on those projects, I was paying like $58/hr on the last one. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:23:30 AM EDT
[#12]
I dont understand what is going on in this thread?
What if you are salaried but above the dollar limits they show in their chart? Oh sure, I sometimes work long hours, weekends, holidays but then when I don't feel like doing any work, I dont. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Cliffs notes video?
 Restoring and Extending Overtime Protections |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:26:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sitdwnandhngon]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: I dont understand what is going on in this thread? What if you are salaried but above the dollar limits they show in their chart? Oh sure, I sometimes work long hours, weekends, holidays but then when I don't feel like doing any work, I dont. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USCG_CPO: I dont understand what is going on in this thread? What if you are salaried but above the dollar limits they show in their chart? Oh sure, I sometimes work long hours, weekends, holidays but then when I don't feel like doing any work, I dont. Depends on your job classification. You could be making $200k/year salary as a construction foreman but still subject to OT pay. Defining and Delimiting the Exemptions for Executive, Administrative, Professional, Outside Sales, and Computer Employees This new rule really doesn't apply to anyone outside of those job classifications. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:33:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By WI_Bill: It's nice how 3 letter agencies have taken over making law. Came to ask this. Do they have the right to just "update and revise?" |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:37:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: scopedope]
[#16]
I’m an exempt, highly compensated employee. The company tracks hours and does a true up on a yearly basis. Like money in the pocket. Also still has a pension.
😀 |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:39:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryCliff notes? Inflation that doesn't exist on things people HAVE to have to live made us do it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:43:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scopedope: I’m an exempt, highly compensated employee. The company tracks hours and does a true up on a yearly basis. Like money in the pocket. Also still has a pension. 😀 How does your company do a true up? |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:48:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JGPSTAHL: I don't understand what this is saying It says companies don't have to pay workers for 8 hours if they only work 6 hours before leaving to pick up their kids. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 11:59:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Apparently, I'm "highly compensated."
Ummm LoL |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:03:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Burnsy]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Apparently, I'm "highly compensated." Ummm LoL |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:04:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bayouhazard: It says companies don't have to pay workers for 8 hours if they only work 6 hours before leaving to pick up their kids.  That was quite the thread.
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:13:38 PM EDT
[#23]
I don't understand why this is a big deal? This is essentially just inflation adjustment a the compensation portion of the "exempt or nonexempt" employee classification that has been in place for years.
Like if we used to consider cars "high mileage" at 85k, but today maybe we consider them "high mileage" at 100k because they last longer. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:35:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. Americas small businesses all have fire insurance and health insurance, but most have no permanent, trained employment law/HR person and they completely ignore the giant glaring risk which is their own employees and how they manage them. The Department of Labor loves making examples out of small/medium companies who try to party like it is still the 80's. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Apparently, I'm "highly compensated." Ummm LoL But I don’t feel highly compensated. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 12:40:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JGPSTAHL: Salaried individuals still don't get overtime I’m salaried and I do. As does the 40+ people who report to me. It’s not automatic, but it is regularly available. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:11:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: I usually keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start a rift, but if it's just me and the employer talking I'll just casually ask what they do about overtime pay. Some of the answers get interesting, and some of them seem to think they are completely exempt and just because they pay their laborers $1500/week all year long that they can work them 60 hours all summer without paying extra. I'm not sure what kind of FSLA posting requirements there are in the shop or office, but the employees would be pissed if they found out, and would likely have a lawsuit they could easily win. I'll never do salary. I just want my guys to know that output comes from input. Put in lots of hours, get a big fat check. I try to encourage OT because it's extra money for them and it means my shit gets done faster. I'm going to speculate that their overtime pay is about the same as you would be shelling out for an additional regular time employee. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:20:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: Do you know how many times I've heard in construction something along the lines of "I put him on salary, works out better for both of us because of the overtime savings". Sure thing pal, might want to read the law about that first. Almost every field position is considered "non-exempt". If those employees ever found out they could rake their employers right over the coals. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:42:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: I don't understand why this is a big deal? This is essentially just inflation adjustment a the compensation portion of the "exempt or nonexempt" employee classification that has been in place for years. Like if we used to consider cars "high mileage" at 85k, but today maybe we consider them "high mileage" at 100k because they last longer. It’s a big deal because a lot of companies have been skirting around the exempt/non-exempt classification using only the salary component. Take a restaurant shift manager making $120k. Before, you didn’t have to track hours because they were considered HCE. Now, well you better have all your ducks in a row to validate they are exempt because they no longer are a HCE. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:46:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exponentialpi: It’s a big deal because a lot of companies have been skirting around the exempt/non-exempt classification using only the salary component. Take a restaurant shift manager making $120k. Before, you didn’t have to track hours because they were considered HCE. Now, well you better have all your ducks in a row to validate they are exempt because they no longer are a HCE. What is even a BIGGER deal is the fact COTUS leaves nothing in it about this. Gov't overstep. This is a STATE issue |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:46:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: I usually keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start a rift, but if it's just me and the employer talking I'll just casually ask what they do about overtime pay. Some of the answers get interesting, and some of them seem to think they are completely exempt and just because they pay their laborers $1500/week all year long that they can work them 60 hours all summer without paying extra. I'm not sure what kind of FSLA posting requirements there are in the shop or office, but the employees would be pissed if they found out, and would likely have a lawsuit they could easily win. I'll never do salary. I just want my guys to know that output comes from input. Put in lots of hours, get a big fat check. I try to encourage OT because it's extra money for them and it means my shit gets done faster. They all have to be illegals or extremely dumb . |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 7:51:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blu3Ridge: So in my line of work as a firefighter, our Captains can make overtime, but our next rank above Captain - Battalion Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, and Assistant Chiefs cannot being admin people. How does this effect them, if any? Sorry, but I am not an HR lawyer. Similar in my Dept, except Captains are considering administrative staff and are exempt from OT. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sitdwnandhngon]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cranberry1: They all have to be illegals or extremely dumb . Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cranberry1: Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon: I usually keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start a rift, but if it's just me and the employer talking I'll just casually ask what they do about overtime pay. Some of the answers get interesting, and some of them seem to think they are completely exempt and just because they pay their laborers $1500/week all year long that they can work them 60 hours all summer without paying extra. I'm not sure what kind of FSLA posting requirements there are in the shop or office, but the employees would be pissed if they found out, and would likely have a lawsuit they could easily win. I'll never do salary. I just want my guys to know that output comes from input. Put in lots of hours, get a big fat check. I try to encourage OT because it's extra money for them and it means my shit gets done faster. They all have to be illegals or extremely dumb . The average blue collar worker, especially younger ones, has no idea what the labor laws are. They just think "Hey, steady paycheck all winter....I'm in". |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:04:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JGPSTAHL: I don't understand what this is saying lol, dumb thread response... ...either do I |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:41:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Someone grab some crayons and draw this out for me. Senor Simpleton don't get it
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Posted: 4/28/2024 9:55:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Gonna be hard for me since I don't punch a clock.
And I can't remember the last time I worked an 8hr day...10 is pretty fucking normal. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bayouhazard: It says companies don't have to pay workers for 8 hours if they only work 6 hours before leaving to pick up their kids.  Geez. That was a wild shitshow. I can't wait until next month when we get another thread about the employee who stays 8 hours and has a poor personality and can't do the job. 
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:19:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exponentialpi: It’s a big deal because a lot of companies have been skirting around the exempt/non-exempt classification using only the salary component. Take a restaurant shift manager making $120k. Before, you didn’t have to track hours because they were considered HCE. Now, well you better have all your ducks in a row to validate they are exempt because they no longer are a HCE. I maybe confused here but I think being a HCE is not a requirement for being an exempt employee. A HVE will almost always be an exempt employee but it is not a requirement. HCE has to do with benefits received. A 401k plan is not top heavy. A top heavy plan has more benefits going to HCE than the rest. One of the exceptions to the rule is for plans that give all employees 3% without requiring an employee contribution. I don’t know how much authority a shift manger has but I would think they qualify. The $120k salary is more than enough. If they supervise at least two FTE employees and their primary job is managing others, they will have met the requirements. I am including the power to hire and fire employees or at least having a significant input on the hire and fire decisions. I have been retired over ten years so things could have changed. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:24:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TruckinAR: What is even a BIGGER deal is the fact COTUS leaves nothing in it about this. Gov't overstep. This is a STATE issue Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TruckinAR: Originally Posted By exponentialpi: It’s a big deal because a lot of companies have been skirting around the exempt/non-exempt classification using only the salary component. Take a restaurant shift manager making $120k. Before, you didn’t have to track hours because they were considered HCE. Now, well you better have all your ducks in a row to validate they are exempt because they no longer are a HCE. What is even a BIGGER deal is the fact COTUS leaves nothing in it about this. Gov't overstep. This is a STATE issue You're missing the interdependence of the branches of government with the constitution. This is has been long established and was most recently upheld in 2022 with WV v EPA when EPA went beyond their statutory authority to implement regulations. The constitution grants Congress explicit authority to enact legislation. The administrative branch is authorized by congressional statute and presidential mandate to implement the laws passed by Congress via administrative agency regulations. This clearly is not a state issue. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:27:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ENGCPT: Came to ask this. Do they have the right to just "update and revise?" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ENGCPT: Came to ask this. Do they have the right to just "update and revise?" Yes as a matter of established case law. How does an agency decide to begin rulemaking? Congress may pass a law that directs an agency to take action on a certain subject and set a schedule for the agency to follow in issuing rules. More often, an agency surveys its area of legal responsibility, and then decides which issues or goals have priority for rulemaking. These are a few of the many factors that an agency may consider: ● New technologies or new data on existing issues; ● Concerns arising from accidents or various problems affecting society; ● Recommendations from Congressional committees or federal advisory committees; ● Petitions from interest groups, corporations, and members of the public; ● Lawsuits filed by interest groups, corporations, States, and members of the public; ● Presidential directives; ● “Prompt letters” from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB); ● Requests from other agencies; ● Studies and recommendations of agency staff. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:34:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WI_Bill: It's nice how 3 letter agencies have taken over making law. I thought there was a lawsuit making its way through the courts to determine if agency rule making has the effect of law. Must have gotten buried by the State. |
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:39:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LesBaer45]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ENGCPT: Came to ask this. Do they have the right to just "update and revise?" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ENGCPT: Originally Posted By WI_Bill: It's nice how 3 letter agencies have taken over making law. Came to ask this. Do they have the right to just "update and revise?" Who is gonna stop them? They do what they want. 
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Posted: 4/28/2024 10:42:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GlockPride: But I don’t feel highly compensated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GlockPride: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Apparently, I'm "highly compensated." Ummm LoL But I don’t feel highly compensated. I'm not any longer.  I work for the state now. I'll never hit those numbers here but we don't work OT anyway. Lean on the shovels for a solid 6 and leave early to pick up the kids and take them to their travel games.
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Posted: 4/29/2024 6:09:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LesBaer45: I'm not any longer. I work for the state now. I'll never hit those numbers here but we don't work OT anyway. Lean on the shovels for a solid 6 and leave early to pick up the kids and take them to their travel games. State workers... Get off at 5, home by 3! |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 6:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pale_pony]
[#45]
Most states Department of Labor rule salary exempt (no O/T) only applies to Professional Managers
Professional Managers can hire and fire at-will Not, "hey boss, we need a couple of new guys for the crew. Can I place an ad?" Professional Managers say, "we needed 2 new guys so I hired them" Budget is down so I fired them, not " these new guys aren't working out, can I fire them? It weeds out the field fast. There aren't that many pro Managers that qualify as exempt (no ot) "Straw bosses" and working bosses (team leaders) are NOT exempt from ot |
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:22:39 AM EDT
[#46]
I still don’t understand. If I make $90k a year as a salaried manager, work 9 hour days, 5 days a week, what does all of this mean?
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:26:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JGPSTAHL: I don't understand what this is saying |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 7:31:48 AM EDT
[#48]
As a LTL linehaul driver. Made $2123 on tomorrow's paycheck. That's for working 45 hours on the 70 hour rule.
Don't want no overtime dont need no overtime. Drive from KC down into the Ozarks to meet a Memphis driver, we switch loads, we both return to home domicile and go home. Rinse and repeat 4 more times per week. I'll never go back to city P&D where overtime applies. 
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Posted: 4/29/2024 8:15:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WI_Bill: It's nice how 3 letter agencies have taken over making law. The laws are written that way. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 8:25:28 AM EDT
[#50]
Gee another contentious rule being published BEFORE Chevron is ruled unconstitutional... expect a boatload more in the next few weeks.
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