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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:04:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
Trying to get into 3d printing. Starting with a glock sight pusher tool.
I can get prints that look good...but the perimeter walls of the print won't stick to each other or the rest of the print very well. Using Aquila x2 (ender 3 v2 clone) with a .4 nozzle. Voxelab PLA pro. I've tried turning the hot end all the way up to 235. Printing that hot, it starts stringing kind of bad. Max I've been able to print before it gets stringy like that is about 220-225. Tried running it pretty slow. 30mm per second. And the walls still don't stick. Slicing with latest cura. .2 layer height and 3 walls, since that's what the author of the model recommended. 75% infill The Z axis layers adhere well. The wall Z axis layers stick well. Why aren't the walls sticking to each other or the interior of the part in the x/y axes tho? Any ideas would be most appreciated. Pic for reference  Attached File Attached File Attached FileSolved! Just needed estep calibration.  Attached File Attached FileApart from a tiny bit of z axis wobble right in the middle, I d call it a perfect print. It was honestly kind of hard to get off the build plate. Walls are adhering great now. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:37:05 PM EDT
[#1]
it looks like your adhesion is happening when walls are on walls, so perhaps the infill just isnt reaching the walls.
I'd start with flow rate calibration to ensure you are getting enough flow then i'd look at infill overlap and dial it up if needed. finally i'd enable alternate extra wall, but not until you have the infill wall adhesion working. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:43:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bionicmonkey: it looks like your adhesion is happening when walls are on walls, so perhaps the infill just isnt reaching the walls. I'd start with flow rate calibration to ensure you are getting enough flow then i'd look at infill overlap and dial it up if needed. finally i'd enable alternate extra wall, but not until you have the infill wall adhesion working. Thanks, I'm not sure how to do that stuff, will have to read up.  It's hard to tell but it ki da feels like the innermost wall is sticking to the infill good. Just the rest of the walls aren't adhering to that innermost wall or eachother. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:47:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Oh wow, OK there's a ton of settings invisible by default in cura. Whoo this looks complicated now.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:09:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#4]
You are under-extruding. Run an extrusion calibration, get the proper numbers.
You can adjust this in a couple ways. Either change the steps in the firmware (you can do this with a command in the starting gcode of the print) or just change the extrusion multiplier for the filament. Typically you get dialed in to perfect on your most used filament, use those steps/mm, then fine-tune using the EM multiplier in the slicer for each filament or printing profile as needed. But first, make sure that your drive gears in the extruder are tight, there is enough tension on the filament at the extruder gears, and there is no big resistance in the path of the filament. Oh, since it is an Ender clone, check for a cracked idler arm on the extuder. That issues plagues Enders like nothing else. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:03:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: You are under-extruding. Run an extrusion calibration, get the proper numbers. You can adjust this in a couple ways. Either change the steps in the firmware (you can do this with a command in the starting gcode of the print) or just change the extrusion multiplier for the filament. Typically you get dialed in to perfect on your most used filament, use those steps/mm, then fine-tune using the EM multiplier in the slicer for each filament or printing profile as needed. But first, make sure that your drive gears in the extruder are tight, there is enough tension on the filament at the extruder gears, and there is no big resistance in the path of the filament. Oh, since it is an Ender clone, check for a cracked idler arm on the extuder. That issues plagues Enders like nothing else. Thanks, yeah it probably needs to be extruder step calibrated at least. I recall that I replaced the chintzy plastic extruder with this metal geared extruder way back when, before I got distracted with other stuff. And I never did do those initial calibration things, I think...  Attached FileI found a bl touch in a drawer I never installed, too. Man, this is the land of half finished projects 
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Posted: 5/4/2024 12:49:49 AM EDT
[#6]
I had that exact problem. Adjusting flow rate solved it.
This actually went on for an embarrassingly long time. My temporary solution was to design parts with radiused or beveled external corners so that the outer layers would be adhered at the top. Parts still felt like they were wrapped in paper. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 2:37:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, so the estep thing was a good suggestion.
Factory setting was 93 steps per mm. Which only produced like 67mm of filament on a 100mm command. I think my aftermarket extruder must have had a different ratio from the stock one. I was waaaay under extruding. I am surprised the prints looked as good as they did. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#8]
One thing I've noticed now is periodic stalls.
I think it's in the extruder motor and I think it's because I had to set the e-steps so much higher to account for the new ratio of the extruder. I think it's hitting the limit of torque the motor can provide at the requested speed. Went from 93 steps per mm to 139. Pretty big jump. Playing around with speed and acceleration settings now to figure out optimum. Eta: seems to mostly be happening on extruder retracts. Might be a better way to tune it just to slow those down a hair in cura |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:52:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Yeah, stock retraction settings can be ambitious, and it depends how many amps the drivers are sending to the motors if they can pull off those acceleration settings
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Posted: 5/8/2024 6:53:23 PM EDT
[#10]
What I really need is a good stress test to get a good actual max speed and acceleration for my extruder.
Through trial and error, I've got some numbers that seem to be working. Changed on the machine itself. Max speed 20 and max acceleration 400. But I don't know if those are optimum. Stock was 25 and 1000. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 10:14:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Good print. One thing I noticed...that little bulge/wobble in the middle of the part is on the same spot as the last print. Piece of debris or nick/ding on either the aluminum extrusion or roller would be my guess.
 Attached File Attached FileShouldn't affect function. But might be a good reason to go to a linear rail at some point. Maybe when these rollers start to wear out. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:58:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Got my BLtouch going.
Had to flash the firmware with the 3rd party "Alex" firmware. Aquila's shit is busted and apparently it's a hardware issue. You either got a board that plays nice with their own firmware or you didn't.  But yeah, this auto bed mesh stuff is magical.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:51:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Ok so... I don't mind tinkering to get big gains on quality and speed but I do need reality checks from those of you with experience.
Mostly I just want to use this printer to make strong, dimensional parts. I think going with larger layers and moving to a .6mm nozzle and something like a microswiss hotend might be a big speed boost...except I'm already kind of torque limited by my extruder motor in how fast I can feed the hotend. So then id need to spring for a beefier extruder motor or go to direct drive. And if I do direct drive, it'll add a bunch of weight to the print head. So then id have to worry about stuff like sag gantry sag and more head inertia causing ghosting. So then id want to invest in a raspberry pi and klipper and add an accelerometer for input shaping... And part of me is thinking doing all that is kinda dumb and I should just stop with where I'm currently at on this printer and buy a second printer that ticks as many of those boxes as possible out of the box. Does that make sense? |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 8:28:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Ok so... I don't mind tinkering to get big gains on quality and speed but I do need reality checks from those of you with experience. Mostly I just want to use this printer to make strong, dimensional parts. I think going with larger layers and moving to a .6mm nozzle and something like a microswiss hotend might be a big speed boost...except I'm already kind of torque limited by my extruder motor in how fast I can feed the hotend. So then id need to spring for a beefier extruder motor or go to direct drive. And if I do direct drive, it'll add a bunch of weight to the print head. So then id have to worry about stuff like sag gantry sag and more head inertia causing ghosting. So then id want to invest in a raspberry pi and klipper and add an accelerometer for input shaping... And part of me is thinking doing all that is kinda dumb and I should just stop with where I'm currently at on this printer and buy a second printer that ticks as many of those boxes as possible out of the box. Does that make sense? Welcome to Ender. If you want to do all that, toss it in the trash and buy a Bambu. Faster in the end, you'll get much better quality parts, and zero frustrations. To do what you want to do youll need a minimum of all new hotend, including stepper, you'll need to get CRTouch at a minimum, if not a hall effect setup if using textured, you'll need to write your own firmware, if you need high accuracy you'll at least need dual Z, potentially linear rail upgrade, probably will want a new main board at that point. In case you haven't noticed yet that requires replacing literally every main component. So just skip the BS and get a Bambu.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 2:03:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Eh...not real keen on Bambu from a security and privacy perspective.
What would be your runner up? |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 2:22:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Eh...not real keen on Bambu from a security and privacy perspective. What would be your runner up? Bambu still. You dont need to use the cloud. Nobody seems to understand that. If you want to completely keep it LAN only, that's okay. If you want to keep it SD card only, that's okay. It doesn't even need to be connected to the internet. You'll lose functionality on stuff like the camera, etc, but its totally doable. Prusa is the only other plug and play option with any true market share. If you're okay with building Voron and RatRig are both solid choices, but they are more involved. I've owned an Ender 3, two Prusa MK3S+s, and a Bambu X1C. To me, there is ZERO comparison. Bambu is the best, no question, and the Prusa is lightyears ahead of the Ender. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 4:54:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tholo]
[#17]
I kinda want somebody on the forum to buy a sovol sv08 to try out. Basically a pre-assembled 350 mm voron 2.4 with some changes for mass production.
$550 at the low end. Not sure if they're shipping yet. Spoken as somebody who bought an LDO voron kit and it isn't finished yet. 1st choice bambu p1s though. I run my bambu x1c in Lan only mode, no cloud. The p1s at work is not connected to wi fi. SD cards only. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 5:08:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tholo: I kinda want somebody on the forum to buy a sovol sv08 to try out. Basically a pre-assembled 350 mm voron 2.4 with some changes for mass production. $550 at the low end. Not sure if they're shipping yet. Spoken as somebody who bought an LDO voron kit and it isn't finished yet. 1st choice bambu p1s though. I run my bambu x1c in Lan only mode, no cloud. The p1s at work is not connected to wi fi. SD cards only. Still need to finish my 2.4 as well, but in my defense I only bought it when I did because of the Black Friday sale. I knew I didn't need it for a while. 
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Posted: 5/10/2024 6:48:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -Obsessed-: Bambu still. You dont need to use the cloud. Nobody seems to understand that. If you want to completely keep it LAN only, that's okay. If you want to keep it SD card only, that's okay. It doesn't even need to be connected to the internet. You'll lose functionality on stuff like the camera, etc, but its totally doable. Prusa is the only other plug and play option with any true market share. If you're okay with building Voron and RatRig are both solid choices, but they are more involved. I've owned an Ender 3, two Prusa MK3S+s, and a Bambu X1C. To me, there is ZERO comparison. Bambu is the best, no question, and the Prusa is lightyears ahead of the Ender. Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty happy with my ender clone. It's making good prints now and the learning curve wasn't all that steep. On security, I get that you can theoretically use it privately. I'm not sure I trust it not to spy. Not in a hurry. But I think we might be on the cusp of some more options. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 6:54:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: From what I've seen on YT, the SV08 leaves a lot to be desired. Still need to finish my 2.4 as well, but in my defense I only bought it when I did because of the Black Friday sale. I knew I didn't need it for a while. I might just wind up building a voron. I built a crappy 3 axis cnc router out of mdf scraps and aluminum angle 20 years ago. I might be able to handle a voron. It does look a bit more involved |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 7:41:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: ... in my defense I only bought it when I did because of the Black Friday sale. I knew I didn't need it for a while. Me too |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 8:18:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Thoughts on troodon? Looks like a bit better executed clone of a voron.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 8:44:59 PM EDT
[#23]
I waffled between the Troodon and Voron kit before I ultimately bought an LDO kit on Black Friday sale, as above.
I figured there would be more aftermarket support and guides for the known quantity LDO. I think the SV08 is a less polished clone, at 40% of the price of the LDO kit. This guy has a lot of information on the Troodon. It seems like 97% of a Voron for 65% of the price. They've continued developing the printer, too.  Watch This Before Buying a Voron Clone (Troodon 2.0) I don't have either. I'd like to hear from non-YouTuber people about them. Sovol does tend to drop the price on their printers after the initial offering, too. I was on the SV08 site for a minute just now wondering if I should be the guinea pig, but I think I'll finish my Voron first. @scul has a couple of Vorons (completed and running!) on here. Others as well. The voron isn't hard to build, but it is time consuming. 50+ hours printing parts on my X1C, and I think I have 20 hours on assembly with probably 20 left. There are kits at several price points. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 11:36:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#24]
I spoke too soon on that bltouch...
It's causing the thermistor reading to drop to 0C when the probe is depressed. Causes "mintemp" error when I go to print. It'll mesh fine without any heaters running. But if a heater is on (bed or nozzle) it stops the show the second the probe is depressed. Looks like a known issue but is not universal. I just lucked out, I guess. There's a z endstop capacitor on the board that antclabs says "can make an issue". I'm wondering what will happen if I desolder that cap. Antclabs says it's not necessary... Eta fixed with a slightly different version of the Alex firmware. Went to the Non"HS" version of the 4x4 grid and now it works. Why that should fix it, I have no idea. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:33:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scul]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tholo: I waffled between the Troodon and Voron kit before I ultimately bought an LDO kit on Black Friday sale, as above. I figured there would be more aftermarket support and guides for the known quantity LDO. I think the SV08 is a less polished clone, at 40% of the price of the LDO kit. This guy has a lot of information on the Troodon. It seems like 97% of a Voron for 65% of the price. They've continued developing the printer, too.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3ibJG-2ZlEI don't have either. I'd like to hear from non-YouTuber people about them. Sovol does tend to drop the price on their printers after the initial offering, too. I was on the SV08 site for a minute just now wondering if I should be the guinea pig, but I think I'll finish my Voron first. @scul has a couple of Vorons (completed and running!) on here. Others as well. The voron isn't hard to build, but it is time consuming. 50+ hours printing parts on my X1C, and I think I have 20 hours on assembly with probably 20 left. There are kits at several price points. Thanks for the tag. I have no idea about the Trodoon or SV08, but agreed on the Voron not being *difficult* to build, just time consuming. (For a different experience, ask @RV8guy - he has had significant issues getting the RPi taking to the main board.) There will also be better support (tech and mods) for a proper Voron kit. I would highly suggest a Voron kit rather than a "clone" like a SV08, if you want to go the Voron route. My V0.2 thread V2.4r2 thread Both of them are slightly modified, but largely BOM/Stock Edit: my v0.2 printed the vast majority of the v2.4 parts |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 9:36:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Bamboo and Prusa are like a new car from the dealership. Complete, warranty and support.
Voron is a kit car. None of the kits are quite 100%. There is excellent support. Warranty on components will vary. Pretty much everything else is a cheap foreign import and your mileage may vary. Most of this is in jest with some truth. I love my V0 but it can be a fickle bitch from time to time. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:43:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Blech. The little pulse generator switch suddenly got stiff and failed.
Ordered a 5 pack of replacements but pronterface is letting me run it at least. I really need to print out a cheat sheet of commands. Brain is old and stiff. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 4:17:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Pretty well got this figured out. First overnight print finished.
Only minor nit picks I have is that ever so slightly under extruded in the wall in one spot. Will tinker with adjusting flow rate of walls vs infill on next print. Z banding is extremely minimal. I'm not going to try to chase that down. I dont think I'm going to do any more mods save for running klipper and a raspberry pi for ai error detection and remote monitoring. As things stand, she's running good.  Attached File |
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