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Posted: 8/29/2019 3:50:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eric802:
Trying to wrap my head around this - so, the “recore” actually consists of all new baffles welded into a tubeless stack, using your existing endcap (which is the engraved part) and the old tube is simply cut down and remade into the blast chamber? If nothing else, that’s a great reason to engrave your endcap instead of the tube, although I suppose you could do the same thing as long as you were using the part of the tube that’s engraved. (To be clear, he made me some additional end caps of the same design to use in other projects where the engraving is in a different spot. That’s why some of the ones you may see in pics aren’t engraved) |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 3:54:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#2]
……….
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Posted: 8/29/2019 8:23:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Just a collection of other pics Nick sent along the way.
         
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Posted: 8/29/2019 8:38:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Nice.
So what’s the rules on doing a F1 can registering the tube and then having a SOT like Ecco build out the baffle stack? |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 8:42:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
Nice. So what’s the rules on doing a F1 can registering the tube and then having a SOT like Ecco build out the baffle stack? So yes, you could send that in for a recore without wasting a second or a penny on internals ahead of time. 
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Posted: 8/29/2019 10:15:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
A tube with both ends and a bore drilled in the end cap counts as a silencer, even without any baffles. So yes, you could send that in for a recore without wasting a second or a penny on internals ahead of time. Second question. I have thought it to be a good idea to mark the mount as the registered part vs the tube. It looks as tho you have done that. So I’m assuming it’s GTG? Seems like HTA did it like that. After seeing some tubes split on F1 builds makes me apprehensive to mark a tube. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#7]
His endcap is engraved, not the mount.
The mount would be the worst place for engraving as you would lose modularity. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 6:40:50 AM EDT
[#8]
What about a end cap strike?
I’m mainly interested in making a F1 rimfire can. So 1/2x28 would be all I ever need. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 7:01:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
I have thought it to be a good idea to mark the mount as the registered part vs the tube. It looks as tho you have done that. So I’m assuming it’s GTG? Seems like HTA did it like that. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 7:05:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dangerdan: His endcap is engraved, not the mount. The mount would be the worst place for engraving as you would lose modularity. Sometimes modularity isn’t part of the decision. I have a 3-pack of Ti tube cans, all with YHM adapters, and that’s what got engraved. Every rifle I have that’s .30 and below has a YHM muzzle device. Modularity means nothing to me in that situation. I have another one that’s a monocore with a sleeve. Engraved the threaded end. The two others discussed in this thread. Engraved on the threaded end as they’re dedicated to 22LR and 9mm hosts with threaded barrels. Every Form 1 22LR can that’s made...probably going to be 1/2-28 DT only. No reason not to engrave the threaded end. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 7:06:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
What about a end cap strike? I’m mainly interested in making a F1 rimfire can. So 1/2x28 would be all I ever need. 
Yep...rimfire only 1/2-28, not a problem at all to engrave just the threaded adapter. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 11:28:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#12]
……..
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Posted: 8/30/2019 12:16:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
End cap strike? I’m screwed.
Yep...rimfire only 1/2-28, not a problem at all to engrave just the threaded adapter. Mainly wanting to F1 a rimfire can for my AR22 SBR. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 12:20:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: I’ve seen a Form 1 that was marked by hand and the craft-grade engraving was more discrete on the back rim of the mount. |
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Posted: 8/31/2019 11:41:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter:
Recent occurrence of at least one titanium tube splitting along laser engraved/heat affected zone, certainly gives one pause. My guess would be a mechanical fracture as result of a cut with a sharp/square corner failing under sudden pressure. I'd have to look closely at the metal in question to make a definitive call on it. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/31/2019 11:59:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sprocket99:
Heat affected zone? I just had some lowers engraved, including one with a complex graphic on the right side of the mag well that was cut twice for extra depth. All were cool to the touch immediately on completion. My guess would be a mechanical fracture as result of a cut with a sharp/square corner failing under sudden pressure. I'd have to look closely at the metal in question to make a definitive call on it. Secondly, how cool the rest of the part is has no bearing on the temperatures reached in the HAZ where the laser is literally vaporizing the material. Not melting; turning into gas. That's hot. Third, your graphic engraving is not nearly as deep as NFA engravings. It would take all day to do that even with a 50 watt laser. Lastly, aluminum and Ti are not the same. Ti oxidizes when exposed to high temperatures. Oxidation is not the same as the annealing which happens in the HAZ of Al or steel alloys. I have suppressors with Ti tubes only .035" thick that I mechanically engraved containing the pressure of .300 RUM, yet these laser engraved tubes nearly twice that thick and smaller in diameter are failing on rimfires. Do you really think it has to do with the removed material? |
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Posted: 8/31/2019 3:04:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixtysixdeuce:
> quote snipped for brevity Having said that, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. Probably won't be the last, either. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/31/2019 3:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sixtysixdeuce]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sprocket99:
I'm familiar with aluminum metallurgy, unless it's changed since I went to college. I'm not at all familiar with Ti. Explanation, not excuse. Ti is just a whole different animal. It has some really awesome mechanical and chemical properties, and some troublesome ones. It's really tough & stringy, harder on tooling than most steels, yet we can't make barrels from it because the bullets will literally strip the rifling out in a few rounds. When working Ti, the material is not very thermally conductive, so most of the heat is imparted on tooling. And the stuff is also pyrophoric and highly flammable, chips igniting easily and burning like magnesium. There's no problem with laser engraving steels, stainless steels or aluminums. Likewise, you can weld those metals in atmosphere without ill effects beyond annealing & otherwise altering the temper. When it comes to laser engraving AL or steels, the HAZ is small enough that it is of little concern. But Ti is different. To weld Ti without oxidizing (and thus embrittling) the metal in the HAZ, it needs to be done in an inert atmosphere. Likewise, laser engraving Ti would be OK in an inert chamber, but if there's oxygen present, it will oxidize. |
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Posted: 8/31/2019 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixtysixdeuce:
Tennalum 7068 is a relatively new one (and completely amazing stuff). |
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Posted: 8/31/2019 9:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#20]
………
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Posted: 9/7/2019 3:02:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Got a pic from the guy Cerakoting mine...should pick them up tomorrow.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 6:55:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Picked them up today. They look great. Ought to be shipping them out to ECCO sometime this week for the final tweak.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2019 7:48:00 PM EDT
[#23]
I recently dropped two cans off at ECCOs shop. One for a jailbreak/recore and the other to have modified to fit a Thunderbeast compact brake.
First up was an AAC Evolution 9 with a lot of rounds through it. All of it either JHP or coated lead, some of it full auto. The baffles looked to be in good shape. I had ECCO replace them with a shielded-cone stack made of stainless for ease of cleaning. It only gained an ounce or two and got quieter. Win/win. Second up was an old Shark Ti rifle can with a lot of rounds through it. I wanted to get rid of the direct thread option because almost all of my precision centerfire rifles are set up for Thunderbeast compact brakes. Within half the quoted time, my cans were ready. I ran over and picked them up. To say I am happy is an understatement. The workmanship is top notch, they are quiet as ever and much more useable for me. These cans had pretty much not had any use in the past couple years. I had them out this week for some full auto MP-5 fun and long range steel banging. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 10:31:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Really great looking work!!
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2019 9:32:30 AM EDT
[#25]
All of this is great info for me. I have a shitty can that a local SOT made for me with a TERRIBLE “mono core” that could use a real overhaul. Would def be a project, need to contact him and see if he’s up for a challenge
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Posted: 9/12/2019 11:26:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Giggity giggity.
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Posted: 9/12/2019 5:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#27]
6.6” = 13.8oz 
7.5” = 15.5oz 
8.5” = 17.1oz 
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Posted: 9/14/2019 9:51:53 AM EDT
[#28]
This is an awesome thread!! Thanks for sending me the link @bigwaylon.
Not that I’m ready to do it right now with a kid on the way, but this breathes new life into my idea to do a tubeless 30cal K can. I have ideas but definitely not the ability, and clearly ECCO can make some pretty awesome stuff. |
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Posted: 9/16/2019 11:08:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Not sure why I didn’t think about it before, but this Form 1 can has me considering canceling my Turbo K stamp. Hmmmm...
6.5” and 13.9oz. 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2019 2:04:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Did you get a chance to shoot any of them yet?
I'm doing my best to get after the others, but I'm swamped right now. I have nearly 40 cans here at the moment, as well as a couple barrel thread jobs, some RMR cuts and other things. I did get the cones made for your .22 and 9mm cans, they're cooking as we speak. But I'm done for tonight. This was a 15 hour day, almost entirely standing in front of lathes. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2019 5:54:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixtysixdeuce:
Did you get a chance to shoot any of them yet? I'm doing my best to get after the others, but I'm swamped right now. I have nearly 40 cans here at the moment, as well as a couple barrel thread jobs, some RMR cuts and other things. I did get the cones made for your .22 and 9mm cans, they're cooking as we speak. But I'm done for tonight. This was a 15 hour day, almost entirely standing in front of lathes. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 6:36:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sixtysixdeuce:
Did you get a chance to shoot any of them yet? I'm doing my best to get after the others, but I'm swamped right now. I have nearly 40 cans here at the moment, as well as a couple barrel thread jobs, some RMR cuts and other things. I did get the cones made for your .22 and 9mm cans, they're cooking as we speak. But I'm done for tonight. This was a 15 hour day, almost entirely standing in front of lathes. Already have a guy lined up to join me when the other ones get back. We’ll shoot all eight on that trip and have some feedback. Glad to know the first two are done. Send me a pic of the blast baffles if you get a chance. I figured the others weren’t done since you had to order material that I thought wouldn’t be there until Wednesday or so anyway. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2019 9:23:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Glad to know the first two are done. Send me a pic of the blast baffles if you get a chance. I figured the others weren’t done since you had to order material that I thought wouldn’t be there until Wednesday or so anyway. |
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Posted: 9/17/2019 1:59:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: Here are a couple pics. Posting in this thread because ECCO handled the boring & clipping. He also added the cutouts to the inside of the DT adapters so I can use a 12pt 5/8 socket to remove them if they get stuck on the barrel (both will be dedicated to builds where they’re recessed). Here’s a pic of the rail bored out, the complete 9mm AR pistol, and several closeups of them after Nick worked on them. THSF did the engraving today, and they’re getting cerakoted (along with the tubeless cans) this weekend. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/917E34A6-ED5C-4515-9EDA-407A7CE2086A-1068260.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/6A602EFD-EB28-422C-8420-E55D1E739E58-1068262.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/7FB8F671-E928-42B2-852A-FDBE3D55FDBF-1068264.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/0F72B5F1-9959-4EE7-B955-A4445843504B-1068265.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/72D3AC15-9FA6-4F99-9DBE-2D8D19421C1F-1068266.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/48E44643-5CC7-41F8-8DD5-3A68F0B56EB0-1068270.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/0BCD15B4-10EB-4E0D-8723-0395CCCAF911-1068277.jpg Now, after they’re cerakoted, they’re going back to ECCO for something I didn’t think about while he had them. DM puts a spacer after the last cone, which seems to be a waste. Nick is going to remove that spacer, push the stack down, and make a new blast baffle for both the 9mm and 22 kits. New blast baffles for these two:  And if I understood @Sixtysixdeuce correctly, I’ll have the original blast chamber spacer (which is what I think is pictured), then this new skirted blast baffle, then the existing stack of radials and spacers. And the last radial will get the lip trimmed off and now sit flush against the end cap, eliminating a spacer at that end. |
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Posted: 9/19/2019 3:03:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#35]
Got the 9 & 22 cans back from Nick today. Work done was:
1. Ditch the last spacer (between last radial and end cap) 2. Remove lip from last radial so it sit more flush against end cap 3. Mark the radials on the outside edge for easier aligning of clips (I added the sharpie mark) 4. Push whole stack towards end cap and make new double-clipped skirted blast baffle in heat-treated 17-4 Stacks now looks like this, except there’s also a blast chamber spacer that I didn’t put in the pic so the blast baffle was visible.  Will get the two hosts put back together this weekend and range trip planned for Tuesday 9/24. |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 8:21:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#36]
ECCO opened up the handguard, handled the clipping, and added a blast baffle...so I’ll put this pic here. 4” barrel, 9” rail, 6.5”x1.25” silencer.
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Posted: 9/20/2019 8:24:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: ECCO opened up the handguard, handled the clipping, and added a blast baffle...so I’ll put this pic here. 4” barrel, 9” rail, 6.5”x1.25” silencer. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/BEC09D9D-E91B-4E23-BDA7-E100009295B7-1097277.jpg Beautiful. Any reason why you didn’t go with a all 17-4 stack on the 22 can? I have been considering reaching out to ECCO and get a price on building out a F1 can for my 22AR SBR. Something that I would dedicate to that gun. |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 8:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#38]
……….
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Posted: 9/20/2019 8:53:26 PM EDT
[#39]
10-4 didn’t know if it was a weight thing or what.
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Posted: 9/20/2019 10:14:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#40]
Made a couple minor changes to the 15-22 SBR and then the caninstalled.
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Posted: 9/20/2019 10:58:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
10-4 didn't know if it was a weight thing or what. |
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Posted: 9/20/2019 11:32:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dangerdan:
Can't really weld stainless to titanium anyway. Ti tube, ends, radials and spacers...and a shielded 17-4 skirted blast cone. |
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Posted: 9/21/2019 12:04:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Nothing is welded in the can in question. Ti tube, ends, radials and spacers...and a shielded 17-4 skirted blast cone. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Can't really weld stainless to titanium anyway. Ti tube, ends, radials and spacers...and a shielded 17-4 skirted blast cone. |
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Posted: 9/21/2019 8:05:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dangerdan: On the 3 you had welded up from ECCO? He asked about the 22 can, which is completely Ti...and Nick added the 17-4 blast baffle. (Same for the 9mm) The three tubeless are all stainless, no Ti. The other three he’s working on now are Ti tubes with stainless ends and he’s doing a removable stainless stack. No pics at this point. |
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Posted: 9/24/2019 4:08:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Brief report from initial range trip.
All the F1 cans did well. •No noticeable difference between the 3 tubeless rifle cans compared to a Saker 7.62, a Turbo and a Razor on 5.56 •Once we both were shooting the same ammo, no difference in the F1 on my 15-22 and the Aviator on his CMMG •The shortest of the F1 cans sounded somewhere in between a Spectre and an Omega 300 on the PS90 •The 1.25”x6.5” 9mm can sounded pretty decent on the 4” 9mm AR pistol, though (as expected) not quite as quiet a standard volume pistol can |
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Posted: 9/25/2019 5:23:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: eric10mm]
[#46]
@Sixtysixdeuce
I have an aluminum, non-boostered, direct thread, 9mm can, approximately 9" long x 1.375" OD (by memory, I will measure when I get home), that could use a re-core. The current core is very unique but suffered a strike. It would be used as a 9mm/22lr can so serviceability is a need. It will only be used on fixed-barrel applications so if it gains a little weight that's okay. What are your thought on such a job? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2019 7:18:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eric10mm:
@Sixtysixdeuce I have an aluminum, non-boostered, direct thread, 9mm can, approximately 9" long x 1.375" OD (by memory, I will measure when I get home), that could use a re-core. The current core is very unique but suffered a strike. It would be used as a 9mm/22lr can so serviceability is a need. It will only be used on fixed-barrel applications so if it gains a little weight that's okay. What are your thought on such a job? |
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Posted: 11/1/2019 10:09:10 PM EDT
[#48]
A little progress pic of the next three getting a recore...
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Posted: 11/2/2019 6:08:08 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 11/2/2019 6:14:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/8A5ECD86-7808-419E-A44E-9E7391E3F370-1146426.jpg |
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