User Panel
Posted: 4/22/2004 1:37:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: haLfLiFe]
I received a request for a tacked "how to thread." As your intrepid and fearless servant I give unto thee a tacked thread. Please share your experience and tips for obtaining a C&R for our fellow shooters.
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Today I drink from the keg of glory, bring me the finest muffins and bagels in all the land.
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If you want to learn from my mistake, be sure to fill out line 7 with your personal info, and send the Certification of Citizenship (an additional form). Get it right the first time and it'll save you many weeks of waiting.
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Dr_X
"Those who respect law and enjoy sausage should never watch either being made" -- Otto Von Bismarck |
OK, here's the basics... anyone else thinks of anything else, or notices any bad info or dead links, email me or IM me...
What is a C&R or Cruffler? C&R is nothing more than a way to facilitate collecting. You may have certain firearms shipped to your C&R FFL address, just like a FFL business. The easy definition is firearms that are 50 years old or more. -There are also some collectible firearms allowed. You can write to the ATF asking them to determine a firearm a C&R. -It looks a little difficult; requiring you to demonstrate why the firearm is collectible. It is not a business. -It MAY NOT be a business or it will be taken away fom you. If you can own a gun you can get a C&R license. The ATF determines who may have a C&R. -Cities have little to no say in whether you may get one. It does require you to keep a logbook. -You must record EVERY C&R purchase. You don't have to record non C&R firearms purchases in your C&R bound book. Still interested? Here are the forms you will need to fill out and where to send them _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Make sure you order this one from the list on the right: F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms ATF Forms you will receive in your packet: ATF application form F 7CR If filling this out for yourself, you will use "Individual" or "Individual Collector" when it asks for position. Fill out 2 copies of this one, as you need to send one to the ATF and one to your Chief Law Enforcement Officer. ATF US Citizenship certification Form F 5330.20 If you are filling out the application as an individual collector, then you will be the person certifying yourself. Add you Social Security Number to the document. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Mail your C&R Application and your US Citizenship Certification form, along with a money order for $30.00, to the ATF at: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms P.O. Box 409567 Atlanta, Georgia 30384-9567 Mail a copy of the application only, to your CLEO. Include a letter like this: Dear Chief/Sheriff X, Enclosed please find, as per federal regulation, a copy of my ATF Form 7CR. You are not required to take any action with respect to the enclosed form. If I can be of any service, or if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at the address above. Please be advised this is not a license to do business, but only a license to collect. Respectfully, Soon2B C&R Guy Some suggest you include the sentence in blue, if you are concerned you CLEO will try to stop or harass your application. Note, it is not up to the CLEO to accept or decline your application. You are onlty required to send them a copy. The ATF decides whether or not to issue the license. It is also suggested you send this via certified mail. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ATF phone number in Atlanta - (404) 417-2750 or 1-866-662-2750 fax number is: (404) 417-2751 or 1-866-257-2749 Of course, after about 10 days, you'll need to call and find out just where the heck your license is. Call this number and ask for the licensing dept. Tell them you are calling about the status of your C&R license. They will then ask what state you are applying in, and transfer you to the person handling your license. That person almost never seems to answer the phone. I was told they get about 100 apps per day. I don't know if they meant per state or countrywide. I'm sure that includes 01 and 03 FFL's. |
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God Bless the USA
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After you receive your C&R you must maintain a bound book to comply with ATF regs.
The best set up I've seen is a packet from: RK ENTERPRISES 2616 LAS POSITAS RD SANTA BARBARA, CA 93105 (805) 687-1416 FAX (805) 687-4565 Cost is $23.95 for the Curio & Relic Collector FFL Package I recommend you purchase it before you fill out your ATF application, as it gives you an idea of the paperwork you are required to maintain, and how to fill out the various application questions. |
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God Bless the USA
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i will definitly second contacting RK Enterprises. Outstanding helpful folks.
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Isaiah 16:11 "Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp..."
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Just wondering.... If you have a C&R does it now allow ATF to stop by when ever they want and request to review your log book and inspect your collection?
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No, they have to make an appointment, and you can goto THEIR office. And just to start some trouble, you have to log EVERY C&R firearm you aquire while you are licensed in your bound book no matter how you get it. You do not "use" your licence, you "are licenced". Just like driving you don't "use" your licence only when someone asks for it, you are licenced to drive. |
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Quick google search for one of the few ATF letters on loggin C&Rs
Department of the Treasury Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms F: PD: FB: FT: nvc AUG 10 1998 (inside address redacted) Dear Mr. (redacted): This is in response to your letter dated July 20, 1998, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. In your letter, you have inquired whether it is necessary to record the transfer of a curio or relic firearm in your acquisition and disposition records. Please be advised that, in accordance with 27 CFR 178.125 (g), a licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. Therefore, regardless of whether the curio or relic firearm was obtained using your collector's license, the acquisition must be entered into your records upon receipt. Accordingly, if you, as a licensed collector, dispose of a curio or relic firearm, the disposition also must be entered into your record book regardless of when it was obtained. We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your request. Should you require additional information or have any questions, please contact us. Sincerely yours, (initialed) KRD for Christopher M. Cuyler Chief, Firearms Programs Division |
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Once you have sent your application in....
You will probably be chomping at the bit for the next 4 to 6 weeks. Use this time to your advantage. Start looking over the vendors list and addressing a couple envelopes a night. Include a letter notifying the vendor that you have enclosed a signed copy of your license and wish to be added to their mailing list as well as their e-mail list. Also request that you be informed of any future sales or promotions. Do a few of these at a time and set them aside. When your license finally arrives, make several copies of it and sign them. DO NOT SIGN THE ORIGINAL LICENSE. Add the signed copies to the allready addressed envelopes along with the letters. Trust me on this, you wont want to wait untill the last minute to start trying to address 50+ envelopes and get them sent off. Once you send the envelopes off you will once again be chomping at the bit, just waiting for all the catalogs to start showing up over the next 3 or 4 weeks. One last piece of advice, keep a list of the vendors who have your license on file. That way you will know at a glance if a vendor has your stuff should you see a sale on something you want. Have fun! |
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I choose to invoke my Fifth Amendment privledge at this time
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Updated link to current forms and instructions on the ATF website:
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-16-notice.html |
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Those who do not do battle for their country do not know with what ease they accept their citizenship in America.
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Can you still get a C&R through a private party? Such as a gunshow person to person transfer.
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Religion and sex are power play's, manipulating people for the money they pay, selling skin, selling God, numbers look the same on their credit cards
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Yes. What a C&R does is allow you to have it mailed to your house from an out of state seller.
But, it can only be C&R eligible guns. (essentially, 50 yr old firearmss) If you mean as a C&R holder can you buy as a private purchase and not log it as C&R, the general concensus is no, you must log all firearms into your C&R logbook regardless of how you purchase them. |
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But hey - this IS ARFCOM country. You never know what you're going to get. a3kid
The NRA isn't perfect, but it's the 600 lb gorilla. DriftPunch |
Leisure_Shoot, as far as you know would the ATF ever consider special anniversary editions of say the 25th anniversary AR-15 or the 40th anniversary Ruger 10/22 a C&R? Bob |
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Religion and sex are power play's, manipulating people for the money they pay, selling skin, selling God, numbers look the same on their credit cards
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There are .pdf's of what is eligible. Such things as special edition tommy guns and special edition newly made 1911's are on it. I think evil black rifles might be a bit much though. Are you asking if they are on it currently,or if you can petition them to have it added to the list. I believe there is a process to do so. This is behyond my knowledge... but I've seen it mentioned on other forums.
Here's a link to ATF site with the listed guns as of 2001 and the update file from 2001-current... ATF C&R eligble firearms |
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But hey - this IS ARFCOM country. You never know what you're going to get. a3kid
The NRA isn't perfect, but it's the 600 lb gorilla. DriftPunch |
Tagged
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"Without training, we are no more then a liability." - Pat Rogers |
What about C&R eligible firearms that were purchased PRIOR to obtaining a C&R FFL? Would such a firearm need to be logged for receipt even though the receipt of the firearm was prior to obtaining a C&R? It makes sense that one would need to log such a firearm after disposing of it, but the receipt question is driving me nuts. F'ing ATF always making things so complicated. |
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To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women! -Conan
Yep, tits are like toy trains. Meant for kids, but it's the dads who play with them. -TexasEd |
You log previously owned guns only if you sell them. |
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I'm gettin to like the new improved beekeeper - 50% less tightass! - QuietShootr
Islam wants you dead. Take appropriate actions. triburst1 |
Submitted ---> 18JAN06
Pending ------> 02FEB06 Received ----> 13FEB06 |
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The world's a cold place; better pack your own heat.
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You must only log C&R activities you do "while licenced" if you did it before you were licenced it doesn't have to be in the book. If you dispose of a C&R gun you got before you were licenced, and now you are licenced you log it in from yourself and out to whoever you sell it to. Makes sense in an odd kind of way |
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How come I got a book for my non-C&R guns when I ordered from RK Enterprises?
Do they just do that as an extra precaution? |
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I'm gettin to like the new improved beekeeper - 50% less tightass! - QuietShootr
Islam wants you dead. Take appropriate actions. triburst1 |
Another stupid C&R question.
Since someone with a C&R FFL is the holder of an FFL, will a C&R holder be able to ship/receive C&R-eligible weapons to/from another C&R holder across state lines? |
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To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women! -Conan
Yep, tits are like toy trains. Meant for kids, but it's the dads who play with them. -TexasEd |
Do you have to be 18 or 21 to recieve a C&R license?
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I've updated above to show where to get the forms. Now they appear to need you to order it from them via phone or web request (no cost for them to send to you, apparently) It also seems they need fingerprints, now. I'm checking on that. bad info on ATF site... disregard. |
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Islam wants you dead. Take appropriate actions. triburst1
Kill all that deserve it. If that is every one, that's OK. As long as it isn't ALL of them. |
I requested my forms and received them today (9/10/04). I got 2 full copies of the ATF F 7CR Application for Licence (Collector of Curios and Relics) and F 5330.20 Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B). I DID NOT receive any fingerprint cards. The instructions on the back do not mention any requirement for fingerprints. BTW, the form is now 2 copies of F 7CR bound together, one is marked on the bottom COPY 1 ATF COPY the other is marked COPY 2 CLEO. TowlieMatrix |
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I just got my C&R a few weeks ago, and I did not submit fingerprints.
The regs may have changed very recently ... |
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Coal Creek Armory Fan Club: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=128&t=262803
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Perhaps they just list the same info for FFL 01 and FFL 03? I don't know... do you get fingerprinted for FFL 01? |
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Islam wants you dead. Take appropriate actions. triburst1
Kill all that deserve it. If that is every one, that's OK. As long as it isn't ALL of them. |
tagged... I just sent off to receive my app today
Edited to add that I got my app today... Do I have to actually send the 2nd copy to the CLEO or just a letter? |
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There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy. -- George Washington
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tagged
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I'm not really a Hessian, but I play one on weekends!
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Has anyone gone through a change of address? Do I need to send my original license? Do I ignore questions that are business related Edit: It's late, what can I say. Just found a very recent thread answering my question. |
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The ATF returned my call regarding my C&R license (it took them nearly a month from dsposit of my check to "processing" my paperwork) and I asked them about fingerprints being necessary for a C&R license.. their response:
FINGERPRINTS ARE NOT NEEDED FOR C&R LICENSES! However, some field offices are sending them out with the C&R application.. she could not give an answer as to why. |
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Black Rifle Disease makes a heroin addiction seem like a vauge wish for something salty.
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Islam wants you dead. Take appropriate actions. triburst1
Isn't there already a law against Murder? Lets just keep tacking on more until we are completely socialist. sgthoskins |
I just received my forms today and attempting to fill them out. I have a couple of questions.
(1.) In section 10. of the form do I just fill in my CLEO + his address or leave it blank? (2.) In section 11. is that my signature or my CLEO? Sorry if these are stupid questions, but I just want to be sure. I watched a friends SBR paperwork take almost a year becuase he screwed up his paperwork. |
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If your not shooting, you should be moving. If your not moving, you should be reloading. Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch |
My paperwork went out this morning. Thanks for the great thread.
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If your not shooting, you should be moving. If your not moving, you should be reloading. Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch |
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its 21 for the C&R
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I sent my application 11-23, called today . They said it was approved just before I called. I should see it in the mail by next week. I can hardly wait to send an order off to Brownells.
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Yippee! It's here! But . . . only 11 of the 12 letters in my last name are on it. Big deal or not?
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7h|$ 7hr34d |$ 73h $uxx0r.
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tagged
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Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. -Tony Montana |
I don't know the answer, but if it were me, I would call them and ask the question. My guess is that if they wanted to, they could make trouble for you if the licence is not in your name. it should just be a case of them sending out a corrected copy. |
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The person who handles this sort of thing is not returning calls this week -- presumably out for the holidays. I'll try on Monday.
ETA 1/6/2005: Got through on the phone and a new license is on its way. That was as easy as it could be! |
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7h|$ 7hr34d |$ 73h $uxx0r.
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Tagged......... Thanks for the info!
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Thanks Yall. After readin this, i ordered the Forms from the ATF website. Waitin on em to get here |
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I just got my forms. There is now provision for using a credit card to pay the fee.
The form is different (revised in Oct or Nov. '04) When I called in to question a boxon the form, they didn't even have a copy themselves! By the way, they instructed me to put 'private collection' in the box along with my SSN. |
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O'er the land of the free & the home of the brave!
TX, USA
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Tagged!
BigDozer66 |
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Michael Moore said "The Democrats have become a Wimpy, Wishy-Washy Party!" |
I just mailed mine this afternoon.
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CavVet said, "...anyone who thinks a traitor, with the balls of a frenchman would be a good President needs their head examined."
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Just received mine today - mailed in 1/7/05. I live in Marietta, GA
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Just sent my forms out tonight.
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Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history, Would be changed forevermore... |
Sent mine out on 1/17/05 and got my C&R FFL today 02/07/05
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Hmm. Sent mine out December 31 and no word yet. Guess I need to call to check.
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If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -- James Madison
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I ordered my C&R application last week, and got it the other day. I recieved the Certification of Compliance with 18 U.S.C. but the actual C&R application was backordered. I'm going to go ahead and fill out the form I did recieve but I'm not sure of what they are asking for. On the citizenship form line 1 and 2, name under which application was filed, that would be myself? And line 2, anme of person certifying citizenship, that would be my name as well? I want to make sure to get it right the first time. The Dr.
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I'm waiting for my backordered forms from BATFE. One quick question -- since C&R doesn't license you as a dealer, how do you handle it when you sell an item? Do fill out a 4473 or treat it like a private party sale and log it in your bound book?
Also, I know you're not allowed to use it for business purposes, but if a gun appreciates in value between acquisition and disposal, are you allowed to sell for a profit? Thanks, SC |
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